340Elise

Which 911's have you owned?

CP

Scott,

I own a Cayman and a 993 Ruf BTR.

IMHO, the Cayman pampers you more, it is easier to drive fast for most casual drivers, and it is a lighter car. The 993 does have creaks and inferior ergonomics (AC, signal stalk, gauge positions etc.) But in terms of shear thrill of driving, the 993 (albeit it is a RUF) wins by a mile. A few miles actually.

CP

djb_rh

I dunno, I'd put my Farnbacher prepared Cayman GTR up against your Ruf BTR. Definitely would be an interesting matchup.

I love how people try to pat the Cayman on the head and say things like "it's easier to drive fast for most casual drivers" and stuff like that. Of course it is...it's better balanced than a 911! And that's why, when comparing apples to apples, the Cayman is simply a better platform than the 911.

Porsche wouldn't be telling the factory supported race shops to not build Cayman based race cars if there wasn't something there. They've threatened them all with pulling factory support if they do, and that's why you *only* see "street" Cayman prep from the big boys like Farnbacher.

I had a 996TT, and my Cayman GTR is far more capable. Sure, the launch is a LITTLE less without AWD, but the car is so much better in every other way it's not even funny.


--Donnie

mooty

hey donnie, how are ya.
i agree that cayman isn't necessarily easier to drive. for the first 50% yes, when you really p ush it, it's actually trickier than 911's, at least modern 911's. it was with cayman that i really figured out how to gather a car up when i am completely sideways ;-) after 6000 + track miles on cay, i find 996gt3 adn 997RS to be extremely predicatable and confidence inspiring.

scott watkins

"Which 911's have you owned?"

964 rs, 993 c4s, couple of 996's, and a 997 gt3.

Cupcar

Hardly a representative experience

Cupcar

I went from driving a well prepared 914/6 to my 964 Cup for autocross. I find the 911 to be much more demanding to drive. I have to be on top of it every minute and when I do screw up it is not only the corner I am executing but, since the corners come up so quickly in autocross and it is hard to get the car back on line, the following corner is screwed as well. With the 914/6 it was easier to quickly get the car back on line and continue on with business.

The 914/6 turned in better, was superb in quick right to left transitions and was much more subtle to throttle steer; in comparison I find the only areas the 911 excels in is braking and corner exit power delivery (if the car is settled down).

I have found that the characteristics of the Boxster to be similar to the 914/6 when I have driven students cars. The mid engine platform is much more fun IMHO.

arenared

An interesting quote from Road & Track, Jan 08, Ferrari SpA explains why a V-8 is appropriate for the F430:

"Ferrari produces two types of cars: One with a V-8 mid-engine and one with a V-12 front engine. Both cars are part of the company tradition. Since 1980, the V-8 has become a staple in Maranello, on such cars as the 308 GTB, 308 GTBi, 308 Quattrovalvole and the 288 GTO. But besides historical reasons, the choice of the V-8 in the F430 is based on a market positioning choice: V-8s are indeed cars with a strong sporting soul while V-12s are typically GTs."

OldGuy

Yea Caymans were so much fun after driving 4 at my Porsche dealer I bought a BMW Z4M coupe.
and it was no where NEAR as fun as a regular 911 not to mention a GT3

djb_rh

To each his own, but I didn't find a stock Cayman S to be a great car to drive. Put the GT3 and Cup car suspension bits on it to fix the problems and put an LSD in it and it becomes pretty fun. Definitely more fun than ANY similarly powered 911. Put an X51 motor in it, too, and you now have a car more fun to drive than any 911 ever built, IMHO. This is what I meant by "apples to apples" in my comments above...Porsche dumbed down the Cayman S to make sure it wasn't *quite* as fun as the 911. Upgrade some things to get them "equal" other than the drivetrain layout and the Cayman wins.

For good measure, put 997 front fenders and the GT3 front fascia on it and you now have the best looking Porsche ever. Again, MHO.


--Donnie

blake

DJB? Is that you from RH fame? Blake Carlson here (RH alum) now living in Park City... When did you decide to get on Rennlist? Glad to hear you got that Caymen beast. I bet it screams. Are you still auto-x-ing with the Petersons? I still get Christmas cards from them. Hope all is well with you and the family...

RennListers - I know Donnie from a previous work life. He is not only a great guy, but a very good driver. He has spent the past 5 years spending significant time on the AutoX circuit, driving Miatas, Subarus and Porsches (Boxster (?), Cayman S, and now I see Cayman GTR). I remember when he bought his 996TT. Have I established his street cred yet? Damn, I'd like to see his new GTR on the track!

-Blake

djb_rh

Yes, that's me. Good to "see" you again! Still got that Speedster, eh? Beautiful car.

Hey, I road race, too...won the 13 Hour at VIR in SM a couple years ago, did a few MX-5 Cup races this past season, etc, etc. Will have to get up with you next time I'm out in that area...would like to get some time at Miller this year if possible. Hoping to run my Acura RSX-S in the World Challenge Touring Car race at VIR this season. Other races will depend on how that goes...


--Donnie, always looking for "street cred" help

blake

Glad to hear everything is going well, Donnie. I knew you would begin road racing - just a matter of when! I had no idea you were running Acuras. Very cool.

I spend significant time out at MMP - keep both PCars there in a track garage. And next summer, I hope to take the GT3 on an east coast tour (VIR, Barber, RA, Lime Rock, Summit, etc.). NC will be on that list of destinations for sure.

Feel free to look me up when you are out here for either skiing or motorsports. I'll send you an email with my contact info...

-Blake

djb_rh

Sounds great. Let me know when you do your tour...I'm a VIR Club member, but unfortunately non-members can't run member days except in the parade lap group. But if you do some other open type track day (and there are a ton...Chin Motorsports and Trackdaze are both pretty good groups, as well as PCA, obviously), I'd try to make that. Might be interested in some of the other tracks with you, in fact.

Oh, and for the record I've been a lifetime Rennlist member for a good number of years (020616-3100). Obviously haven't been a very active poster on the forums, but I did email the admin to see why I don't show up as a member. Hopefully they'll straighten that out.

I also have a 1987 911 that I'm having backdated to a '73 RS look car by Farnbacher. Should be done very soon. Freshened up engine, but nothing crazy in there. Completely updated suspension and brakes (and went to 17" Fuchs lookalikes to fit decent brakes under it) and did the interior. I don't know why, but I just always loves those cars and wanted one I could drive on the street.

I've also got a 917K clone being built by Race Car Replicas right now. It'll have a 993 powerplant in it custom built with TWM throttle bodies and other goodies to get it to about 350WHP. A far cry from what a real 917K had, but more than enough for a sub-2000 pound car on the track.


--Donnie

blake

Those all sound like great projects! I'm with you regarding the appeal of the '73RS. FWIW, I ran into an old friend from CT who I played pee-wee league football with in CT many years ago. Anyway, he was racing at MMP in a BMW at the Speedvision Touring Class this past July. I remember his dad took him to practice in the 1980s in a 73 RS, so I asked him about it. Not only was it real, but his dad owned 2. Great story.

Your 917 clone sounds pretty good to me as well! You've got some good projects going on Donnie! I'll be in touch... Oh yeah - and post here more often!

Sorry to hijack this thread guys...

-B