F430 or GT3?
09-10-2007, 05:54 PM
#16
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I have a GT3 RS (996) and my brother has an F430 F1 that I drive a lot. I have also owned Mk-I and Mk-II 996 GT3's. And I have driven the 997 GT3 and RS.
The F430 and the GT3 are remarkably similar in application and capability, but very different emotionally. They are both very easy to drive on a daily basis, even in traffic - comfortable and user friendly. The 996 RS is pretty hard-riding, but the 997 is much better. The Ferrari in Sport mode is very comfortable. The Ferrari is wide, though, and is not as easy to see out of as the Porsche, but it's not that bad (Gallardo is much worse). Noise levels inside the cab are not a problem in either the F or P.
The Porsche wins in terms of proven reliability, although the latest Ferraris seem to be ok. It's difficult to be sure because few of them ever see even moderately high miles. But it would be a safe bet that the Porsche will cost a LOT less to run over time, more so if you put real mileage on it.
Regarding performance, there's really nothing in it. Both are equally fast on road and track, and both will give you a huge sports car buzz on a Sunday backroad drive. Driven hard, the Ferrari is the faster car in the hands of a non-expert due to its mid-engine handling balance, electronic diff and stabilty systems. But for expert drivers, the Porsche is every bit as fast. They both have that hardwired-to-the-brain driving character of great sports cars. The Ferrari sounds better, though, and is a touch more delicate in feel. And it's incredibly stable, feeling nailed to the asphalt. The GT3 is looser and twitchier, but is no less capable. And IMHO, no less fun.
Which leaves the emotional differences. Jeremy Clarkson describes the Ferrari as a "scaled-down version of God", and the 911 as a "hopped-up VW Beetle". And that's not a bad description for how the cars are perceived, both by their owners and the general public. My RS is my daily driver. I treat it exactly as I would treat a Toyota Camry (except I park it away from door-ding dangers). I get excited gestures from 12 year old boys, but few adults even look twice.
But when I drive the Ferrari, it's like a major event. My brother hands over the keys with a set of verbal instructions on what I can and can't do. Once on the road, everybody, and I mean everybody, gawks at the holy red car God. Cell phone cameras point from all angles, and people can't help but gather around it anywhere it's parked. It's a bit ridiculous really, and it gets tiresome quickly.
Put them both in front of me and ask me to choose... I take the GT3. But that's because I use my sports cars for daily transport. I would probably take the GT3 for the track too. But if I was buying a Sunday car, I would probably take the F430. Simply put, it's more special than the Porsche, more precious.
The F430 and the GT3 are remarkably similar in application and capability, but very different emotionally. They are both very easy to drive on a daily basis, even in traffic - comfortable and user friendly. The 996 RS is pretty hard-riding, but the 997 is much better. The Ferrari in Sport mode is very comfortable. The Ferrari is wide, though, and is not as easy to see out of as the Porsche, but it's not that bad (Gallardo is much worse). Noise levels inside the cab are not a problem in either the F or P.
The Porsche wins in terms of proven reliability, although the latest Ferraris seem to be ok. It's difficult to be sure because few of them ever see even moderately high miles. But it would be a safe bet that the Porsche will cost a LOT less to run over time, more so if you put real mileage on it.
Regarding performance, there's really nothing in it. Both are equally fast on road and track, and both will give you a huge sports car buzz on a Sunday backroad drive. Driven hard, the Ferrari is the faster car in the hands of a non-expert due to its mid-engine handling balance, electronic diff and stabilty systems. But for expert drivers, the Porsche is every bit as fast. They both have that hardwired-to-the-brain driving character of great sports cars. The Ferrari sounds better, though, and is a touch more delicate in feel. And it's incredibly stable, feeling nailed to the asphalt. The GT3 is looser and twitchier, but is no less capable. And IMHO, no less fun.
Which leaves the emotional differences. Jeremy Clarkson describes the Ferrari as a "scaled-down version of God", and the 911 as a "hopped-up VW Beetle". And that's not a bad description for how the cars are perceived, both by their owners and the general public. My RS is my daily driver. I treat it exactly as I would treat a Toyota Camry (except I park it away from door-ding dangers). I get excited gestures from 12 year old boys, but few adults even look twice.
But when I drive the Ferrari, it's like a major event. My brother hands over the keys with a set of verbal instructions on what I can and can't do. Once on the road, everybody, and I mean everybody, gawks at the holy red car God. Cell phone cameras point from all angles, and people can't help but gather around it anywhere it's parked. It's a bit ridiculous really, and it gets tiresome quickly.
Put them both in front of me and ask me to choose... I take the GT3. But that's because I use my sports cars for daily transport. I would probably take the GT3 for the track too. But if I was buying a Sunday car, I would probably take the F430. Simply put, it's more special than the Porsche, more precious.
Clarkson act like a moron regards Porsche because deep down he knows (although he will never admit it) that German engineering it's much superior. His reaction his classic: Rage and envy as the pain and frustration caused by other for having something that one does not have oneself..
GT3 and F430 as everyone stated are more or less identical, but I would choose the Porsche because:
There is no substitute
09-10-2007, 08:58 PM
#17
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I have the GT3, the GT3RS and the 430. I drive the snot out of all three of them and to me, the discussion of which is more special, more favorable, more sensitive to the "mileage disease" is not really meaningful. For us enthusiasts, the thrill of driving all of these cars plus the history and provenance that both Porsches and Ferraris enjoy maximizes the pleasure of ownership. Any discussion that attempts to rationalize financial measures/returns is pretty worthless in my view. You have them, you drive them, your life is richer as a result. Whatever happens when it's time to get rid of one is just a transaction that will be soon forgotten, not an event that should guide the acquisition decision.
09-10-2007, 09:01 PM
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Gary
09-10-2007, 09:12 PM
#19
Tough decision. If it was me I would know that I could never rest easy leaving my F430 parked anywhere or out of my sight for 3 seconds. For a weekend toy though, a Ferrari is probably tough to beat.
09-10-2007, 09:44 PM
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I heard the reason the 911 has wings is that the rear engine placement makes underbody aerodynamics and a rear diffuser difficult or impossible to implement effectively. Anyway, I personally love the LeMans look of the RS wing even if it does lack the beautiful form of the Ferraris.
09-10-2007, 11:28 PM
#21
Drifting
Peloton ++++++1
That is the best post I have read this year. I have an 07 turbo and I just bought an 08 turbo cab...I love the Porsche turbos. Buy what you like and drive them as often as you can.
That is the best post I have read this year. I have an 07 turbo and I just bought an 08 turbo cab...I love the Porsche turbos. Buy what you like and drive them as often as you can.
09-11-2007, 12:13 AM
#22
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For your kinda driving I would go for a 430. Maybe if i see more F-cars out on track other then challenge cars and some maranello's they are few and far between on trackdays. Mike
09-11-2007, 01:40 AM
#24
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Gary you would be right if the F430s didnt keep breaking in the ALMS -that is when they dont take each other out!! Seriously the Ferrari has caught up with Porsche right now and they are quicker, but they dont seem to last as long. See LeMans 07. The 430 is better right now than the RSR but it should be with the bigger motor. However the 3.8 RSR will come out soon and Porsche will again dominate road racing. Now if I recall correctly the Ferrari F1 car has a wing or 33 doesnt it?
Whats a 60 ms F1 shifter? Do you guys not know how to shift? My wife has paddle shifters on her car too-And down force really doesn't matter when the F car is on the side of the road broke!
Just kidding Gary.
Whats a 60 ms F1 shifter? Do you guys not know how to shift? My wife has paddle shifters on her car too-And down force really doesn't matter when the F car is on the side of the road broke!
Just kidding Gary.
09-11-2007, 01:59 AM
#25
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks Speedgeek and Rickg87. You've explained clearly what was vaguely in my mnd. Wow Peloton, you got all three! A peloton indeed. You are trully a blessed man. If I don't have to add much, I'll likely go for it. If you're wondering, the premium I'll be paying looks narrow based on US standards as the GT3 is tax paid while the 430 isn't.
As I use the GT3 only on weekends, the 430 would probably suit my needs. Speedgeeks description of each time you drive one is 'an event' in itself, Clarkson's "a scaled down version of God" and Rick87's view that the "430 is a more exotic driving experience" is why I'm likely to close this deal. How I wish I could afford both. But this sub-prime issue is causing me some headwinds especially if you're involved in the financial markets as I am.
The seller doesn't seem to mind pricing at MSRP based on initial talks. But the fat lady hasn't sung yet so fingers crossed.
At the end, it's cool if it doesn't pan out. The GT3 is a fantastic car too. As Car mag UK puts it in their Jan'07 review by Jason Barlow w/c is my favorite..."the fact is, with the latest GT3, Porsche has managed at last to forge the perfect synthesis of raod and track, create a car that is equally happy on whatever surface you chuck it".
"The GT3 is the result of such obsessive engineering it's practically autistic".
"You can practically place the GT3 more accurately on the road than any comparable performance car".
As I use the GT3 only on weekends, the 430 would probably suit my needs. Speedgeeks description of each time you drive one is 'an event' in itself, Clarkson's "a scaled down version of God" and Rick87's view that the "430 is a more exotic driving experience" is why I'm likely to close this deal. How I wish I could afford both. But this sub-prime issue is causing me some headwinds especially if you're involved in the financial markets as I am.
The seller doesn't seem to mind pricing at MSRP based on initial talks. But the fat lady hasn't sung yet so fingers crossed.
At the end, it's cool if it doesn't pan out. The GT3 is a fantastic car too. As Car mag UK puts it in their Jan'07 review by Jason Barlow w/c is my favorite..."the fact is, with the latest GT3, Porsche has managed at last to forge the perfect synthesis of raod and track, create a car that is equally happy on whatever surface you chuck it".
"The GT3 is the result of such obsessive engineering it's practically autistic".
"You can practically place the GT3 more accurately on the road than any comparable performance car".
09-11-2007, 02:40 AM
#26
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Don't worry, tdf360 is one of the few 6-speed manual zealots left in Ferrari Land (at least on this side of the pond). But it won't be long before most Porschephiles sing the praises of automated trannys and call the rest of us Luddites...
09-11-2007, 04:45 AM
#27
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One of life's great joys is to walk down Maximillianstrasse in munich on a sunny day inspecting the exotic cars. If I say that C-GTs don't draw crowds, you get the idea.
I've lived in dangerous places and in safe places, safe places are better.
R+C
09-11-2007, 10:25 AM
#28
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Gary you would be right if the F430s didnt keep breaking in the ALMS -that is when they dont take each other out!! Seriously the Ferrari has caught up with Porsche right now and they are quicker, but they dont seem to last as long. See LeMans 07. The 430 is better right now than the RSR but it should be with the bigger motor. However the 3.8 RSR will come out soon and Porsche will again dominate road racing. Now if I recall correctly the Ferrari F1 car has a wing or 33 doesnt it?
Whats a 60 ms F1 shifter? Do you guys not know how to shift? My wife has paddle shifters on her car too-And down force really doesn't matter when the F car is on the side of the road broke!
Just kidding Gary.
Whats a 60 ms F1 shifter? Do you guys not know how to shift? My wife has paddle shifters on her car too-And down force really doesn't matter when the F car is on the side of the road broke!
Just kidding Gary.
As with all cars, test drive all that appeal and buy the one that turns your crank!
Gary
09-11-2007, 01:01 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Having owned Porsche's and now exclusively Ferrari I believe Speedgeek coomments are spot on. The canard that mileage is a constant concern for Ferrari owners is nonsense. All of my Ferrari's have been driven and my 430 Spider has over 10,000 miles. I took delivery in Dec. 2005. I have no concern about selling it for at least what paid if not more.
My advise to you is be careful about the November allocation. If this guy is telling you he will sell you his allocation, then run don't walk away from the deal. I very much doubt any Ferrari dealer will allow such a transaction to take place.
On the other hand, if he is going to spec it out as you like and take delivery then it is a doable deal. However, the person flipping it probably will not see another Ferrari from that dealer.
Finally, the 430 is a very reliable everyday car. Maintenance is at 5000 miles (around $1100) 15,000 (about the same amount) and 30,000 miles.
My advise to you is be careful about the November allocation. If this guy is telling you he will sell you his allocation, then run don't walk away from the deal. I very much doubt any Ferrari dealer will allow such a transaction to take place.
On the other hand, if he is going to spec it out as you like and take delivery then it is a doable deal. However, the person flipping it probably will not see another Ferrari from that dealer.
Finally, the 430 is a very reliable everyday car. Maintenance is at 5000 miles (around $1100) 15,000 (about the same amount) and 30,000 miles.
09-11-2007, 04:40 PM
#30
I have the GT3, the GT3RS and the 430. I drive the snot out of all three of them and to me, the discussion of which is more special, more favorable, more sensitive to the "mileage disease" is not really meaningful. For us enthusiasts, the thrill of driving all of these cars plus the history and provenance that both Porsches and Ferraris enjoy maximizes the pleasure of ownership. Any discussion that attempts to rationalize financial measures/returns is pretty worthless in my view. You have them, you drive them, your life is richer as a result. Whatever happens when it's time to get rid of one is just a transaction that will be soon forgotten, not an event that should guide the acquisition decision.
