Warning for anyone dealing with North Olmsted Ohio Porsche...STAY AWAY
08-10-2007, 08:23 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by John Welch
First off, buying a large volume car and not getting screwed has no real bearing on this GT2. Its a little different when the dealer thinks he has an opportunity for tens of thousands of dollars in pure profit.
Second, this is great. The dealer admits that you wanted to place a deposit and that he couldn't be honest enough to tell you straight out that there was any chance that you wouldn't get the car. Nice. So a potential customer doesn't pursue the car anywhere else based on your assurances and now he's lost two months and probably any chance of finding an allocation anywhere else. I guess taking advantage of people so often makes it seem like its normal.
Way to run a business.
Second, this is great. The dealer admits that you wanted to place a deposit and that he couldn't be honest enough to tell you straight out that there was any chance that you wouldn't get the car. Nice. So a potential customer doesn't pursue the car anywhere else based on your assurances and now he's lost two months and probably any chance of finding an allocation anywhere else. I guess taking advantage of people so often makes it seem like its normal.
Way to run a business.
08-10-2007, 08:44 PM
#47
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These situations are always difficult. Emotions run high when a new very limited vehicle comes on the market - the GT2 is clearly one of these cars.
I think life is too short. There will always be a chance to buy a GT2, if not this year, the GT "whatever" will be out in 2009 and it will be better, faster, cooler, and all that than the 2008 GT2. Why sweat it?
That said, Jamie feels betrayed by the dealership. Without any deference to the merits of either Jamie's perception of the facts or Bernie's for that matter, Jamie, in my opinion should have gone to the dealership and sat down with Bernie face to face to try and work it out instead of laying it out on the forum.
And as far as the dealership is concerned, while I understand their desire to defend themselves, they too should have gone silent. Sometimes less is more.
I think life is too short. There will always be a chance to buy a GT2, if not this year, the GT "whatever" will be out in 2009 and it will be better, faster, cooler, and all that than the 2008 GT2. Why sweat it?
That said, Jamie feels betrayed by the dealership. Without any deference to the merits of either Jamie's perception of the facts or Bernie's for that matter, Jamie, in my opinion should have gone to the dealership and sat down with Bernie face to face to try and work it out instead of laying it out on the forum.
And as far as the dealership is concerned, while I understand their desire to defend themselves, they too should have gone silent. Sometimes less is more.
08-10-2007, 09:03 PM
#48
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By no means would i custom order a car (likely orange/copper or some specific color) if I were not going to by it. That's also not the point, its wasting Jamie's time for 3 months when he wanted to get a car. He put off getting a 996 GT2 for this specific car purchase and now lost 3 months of possible drive time in OH where the drive time is limited like many in the Northern states.
As for my business, well I do what it takes to earn good clients business, and if that means going out of my way in the weekend or accomaditing them I do my best to. If you go down the street to another shop I'm not really upset, it happens everyday we can't do all the jobs that are requested of us when your booked 100% of the time.
Like I said, if Jamie wants my GT2 if I get it he can have it. It means more to him then it does me at this point in time, I'll be happy he's enjoying it. Mine would likely sit in the garage all the time like the 996TT did.
As for my business, well I do what it takes to earn good clients business, and if that means going out of my way in the weekend or accomaditing them I do my best to. If you go down the street to another shop I'm not really upset, it happens everyday we can't do all the jobs that are requested of us when your booked 100% of the time.
Like I said, if Jamie wants my GT2 if I get it he can have it. It means more to him then it does me at this point in time, I'll be happy he's enjoying it. Mine would likely sit in the garage all the time like the 996TT did.
Originally Posted by allegretto
Thank you for making my point. As you see it, tying up a few orders, thereby forcing others to take your choice, or change theirs when it's all over is "no probem".
So if a fellow asks you to make accomodations for them and then calls up and says "sorry, I'll have the shop down the street do it", it's OK.
So if a fellow asks you to make accomodations for them and then calls up and says "sorry, I'll have the shop down the street do it", it's OK.
08-10-2007, 09:14 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by eclou
My 2/08 GT2 allocation is in limbo, also due to the limited GT2 offerings (70 for US). No big deal, it is just a car. Something better always comes along later no matter what
I agree .... It is "just a car". And, I'd think with all the cash and huge credit line that Jamie has, he would just go buy one some place else. Obviously, money is not an objection.
(What exactly does one do with a GT2 anyway? I'm in the dark here. I doubt if it's a daily driver, eh?)
And, speaking of selling a limited edition car at sticker ... I have a little story for you folks. The Ford dealer that I buy my trucks from had an allocation for a Shelby Mustang. It arrived, my dealer called, I looked at it .... tho't it was nice. And, passed on the car. Yeah, it was like $49K ... not in the same league as the GT2.
The dealer sold it at sticker to some dude from Massachusetts. He put minimal down, financed it for a long term ... and promptly tossed it on eBay. He made $20K over sticker in a short period of time cuz some other dude wanted a 'limited edition' car to drive.
When I spoke with the Ford dealer later, they told me they would list the next Shelby on eBay themselves. I don't blame them. I'd do the same. Screw the guy that would buy at sticker and then resell at a premium.
Anyway, if a dealer wants to sell a car above sticker ... so what? If someone's stupid enough to buy the car at that price .... so be it. P.T. Barnum said it many decades ago. If the dealer wants to sell his car to his 'best customers', that's also fine with me.
I guess I'll never be in this situation.
08-10-2007, 10:30 PM
#50
Three Wheelin'
To All ... this is Bernie, not Chris ...
In the proceeding time period, you made repeated phone calls to Chad asking us to write a purchase agreement and take a deposit. We told you that we were not going to do that until we understood if we were even going to get a GT2.
My call to you yesterday was a courtesy call, since you had been asking so much about this car, to let you know our current thinking. It's really not that complicated. As I told you clearly yesterday, we are getting a GT2. We have not yet made the determination as to who we will sell it to and won't make that decision until the car arrives. As for the price, we have not decided on that either. You infer that our waiting means over MSRP. That's your assumption, not mine. The market price for the car may be below MSRP, MSRP, or above.
The point being we were giving you a courtesy call to let you know we could not commit the car to you right now. With that information, you could decide to wait and see, seek the car from another dealership, or buy a different model.
Pretty straigtforward.
In the proceeding time period, you made repeated phone calls to Chad asking us to write a purchase agreement and take a deposit. We told you that we were not going to do that until we understood if we were even going to get a GT2.
My call to you yesterday was a courtesy call, since you had been asking so much about this car, to let you know our current thinking. It's really not that complicated. As I told you clearly yesterday, we are getting a GT2. We have not yet made the determination as to who we will sell it to and won't make that decision until the car arrives. As for the price, we have not decided on that either. You infer that our waiting means over MSRP. That's your assumption, not mine. The market price for the car may be below MSRP, MSRP, or above.
The point being we were giving you a courtesy call to let you know we could not commit the car to you right now. With that information, you could decide to wait and see, seek the car from another dealership, or buy a different model.
Pretty straigtforward.
In an effort to defend yourself you prove the original poster's complaint to be true.
In paragraph one you say when your allocation is confirmed a deposit will be taken and a contract written.
Then in paragraph two now it is just a courtesy call to let the guy know your "current thinking" i.e. your screwed we are not honoring our word and go look elsewhere if you want.
From your entire post it reads like you put the buyer in touch with your salesmanager as a representative of your dealership. Salesmanager committed the car and then after the fact you get greedy and will not honor your representative's commitment.
We all understand the point of market and demand = price but not after you committed to someone.
08-10-2007, 11:13 PM
#51
Three Wheelin'
We're the only one in Ohio getting the GT2. And you're pissed that you're not getting it. I would be upset to...but why didn't you put a deposit on it? What exactly were you waiting for? - Just doesn't make sense.
Not classy at all.
Chris Sanner
Not classy at all.
Chris Sanner
To All ... this is Bernie, not Chris ...
In the proceeding time period, you made repeated phone calls to Chad asking us to write a purchase agreement and take a deposit. We told you that we were not going to do that until we understood if we were even going to get a GT2.
In the proceeding time period, you made repeated phone calls to Chad asking us to write a purchase agreement and take a deposit. We told you that we were not going to do that until we understood if we were even going to get a GT2.
Looks like the buyer wanted to place a deposit.
08-11-2007, 12:17 AM
#52
Originally Posted by Dariof
Your experience is not just different than mine....[B]it appears it is different from everyone else's as well.[/B]
Take my word for it! 
Mags
08-11-2007, 01:24 AM
#55
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Originally Posted by 996toomey
Chris:
Looks like the buyer wanted to place a deposit.
Looks like the buyer wanted to place a deposit.
So yeah- I take it personally when someone attacks my Place of Work, Boss and Friend.
08-11-2007, 01:31 AM
#56
Chris,
Regardless of whether the original allegations were accurate, remember that third-parties are watching how you handle the situation. I have always been impressed by your posts, and, quite frankly, I have thought about contacting you to buy a car.
I am not impressed by your latest post. I would delete it if i were you. You could send that same info in a PM. Remember, you can win a fight and lose the war.
TD
Regardless of whether the original allegations were accurate, remember that third-parties are watching how you handle the situation. I have always been impressed by your posts, and, quite frankly, I have thought about contacting you to buy a car.
I am not impressed by your latest post. I would delete it if i were you. You could send that same info in a PM. Remember, you can win a fight and lose the war.
TD
08-11-2007, 01:38 AM
#57
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by TD in DC
Chris,
Regardless of whether the original allegations were accurate, remember that third-parties are watching how you handle the situation. I have always been impressed by your posts, and, quite frankly, I have thought about contacting you to buy a car.
I am not impressed by your latest post. I would delete it if i were you. You could send that same info in a PM. Remember, you can win a fight and lose the war.
TD
Regardless of whether the original allegations were accurate, remember that third-parties are watching how you handle the situation. I have always been impressed by your posts, and, quite frankly, I have thought about contacting you to buy a car.
I am not impressed by your latest post. I would delete it if i were you. You could send that same info in a PM. Remember, you can win a fight and lose the war.
TD
08-11-2007, 01:39 AM
#58
Originally Posted by Likemystoppie?
The conversation I had with Bernie was breif albeit too quick. And as Bernie stated before- I am very enthusiastic. Not only is Porsche of North Olmsted my Career Choice- I didn't just happen upon this place you know- I'm one of Bernie's Boston guys- 11 of us made the commitment to move here and make this dealership what it is today- But to add to that- Bernie is not only my employer- he's a very good friend of mine.
So yeah- I take it personally when someone attacks my Place of Work, Boss and Friend.
So yeah- I take it personally when someone attacks my Place of Work, Boss and Friend.
Thanks for taking my post to heart and editing your post. I understand what you are trying to say here.
TD
08-11-2007, 02:55 AM
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Why not make a posting for customers and dealers to post, showing which dealers have sold cars over sticker, (for customers reference) and also showing which buyers have bought cars at sticker and flipped them for a profit? I think the reason that this is such a hot topic here, is that most Rennlisters are driving enthusiasts who buy these cars to (well) drive.
Out there in Ferrariworld, buyers appear to be mostly show-boaters, most interested in the status symbolizm of their cars, and do not seem to drive them in most cases (treating their cars in much the same way as they handle stock portfolios). The over sticker dealer games and flipper customers are rife in this "effluent" (affluent) market.
So, enthusiasts who want to drive high performance special cars, are subjected to a buying market filled with greed and speculation, both from many of the dealers as well as the flipper customers who try and make these cars into a personal business.
While none of these activities are illegal and perfectly expected in this capitalistic world, wouldn't it be fun to make a listing of dealers in the US, with examples of which ones have sold limited cars at over sticker? Also create a comparative list of individual customers who have bought and flipped these cars at a profit. It could serve as a valuable reference to both buyers in selecting a dealer with which to place their next order, as well as a useful list of customers whom dealers may want to avoid selling these limited cars to.
No one could complain about being named as a flipper as long as the facts are straight, and the dealers could not complain about being featured as speculators if there had been real examples of them marking up cars.
Wouldn't it be nice too cool off this type of activity so that the true drivers, (who want the newest and fastest models to drive and put miles on) are treated with the priority that they deserve, and whom would be in the best interestes of the brand to have buying and driving its' cars.
Out there in Ferrariworld, buyers appear to be mostly show-boaters, most interested in the status symbolizm of their cars, and do not seem to drive them in most cases (treating their cars in much the same way as they handle stock portfolios). The over sticker dealer games and flipper customers are rife in this "effluent" (affluent) market.
So, enthusiasts who want to drive high performance special cars, are subjected to a buying market filled with greed and speculation, both from many of the dealers as well as the flipper customers who try and make these cars into a personal business.
While none of these activities are illegal and perfectly expected in this capitalistic world, wouldn't it be fun to make a listing of dealers in the US, with examples of which ones have sold limited cars at over sticker? Also create a comparative list of individual customers who have bought and flipped these cars at a profit. It could serve as a valuable reference to both buyers in selecting a dealer with which to place their next order, as well as a useful list of customers whom dealers may want to avoid selling these limited cars to.
No one could complain about being named as a flipper as long as the facts are straight, and the dealers could not complain about being featured as speculators if there had been real examples of them marking up cars.
Wouldn't it be nice too cool off this type of activity so that the true drivers, (who want the newest and fastest models to drive and put miles on) are treated with the priority that they deserve, and whom would be in the best interestes of the brand to have buying and driving its' cars.