Warning for anyone dealing with North Olmsted Ohio Porsche...STAY AWAY
08-10-2007, 01:27 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by Cowhorn
Yeah, but that's only because you won the Indy 500 and are married to one of the Judds! 
I know. His name is soooo close to mine that when I see it on TV, I have to take a double-take to see why my name is on TV.
My friends constantly remind me that I won Indy...wouldn't that be awesome?
08-10-2007, 01:29 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by Likemystoppie?
To All ... this is Bernie, not Chris ...
As I told you clearly yesterday, we are getting a GT2. We have not yet made the determination as to who we will sell it to and won't make that decision until the car arrives. As for the price, we have not decided on that either. You infer that our waiting means over MSRP. That's your assumption, not mine. The market price for the car may be below MSRP, MSRP, or above.
As I told you clearly yesterday, we are getting a GT2. We have not yet made the determination as to who we will sell it to and won't make that decision until the car arrives. As for the price, we have not decided on that either. You infer that our waiting means over MSRP. That's your assumption, not mine. The market price for the car may be below MSRP, MSRP, or above.
08-10-2007, 01:33 PM
#33
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I forgot to mention - when I got back to my room from dinner it was full of strippers!! Thanks Chris!!
J/K
thought i'd lighten things up a bit.
J/K
thought i'd lighten things up a bit.
08-10-2007, 01:37 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by Likemystoppie?
To All ... this is Bernie, not Chris ...
First, I would normally not respond, but felt I owed it to my customers who have made postings here to do so. Second, I never asked Chris to post anything for me ... he is a very "enthusiastic" person and does what he feels he should.
Jamie, as you know, I did call you a few months back at Cathy's request. She told me how you were having problems with your R350 (or your wife's R350) and the Mercedes-Benz dealership in Bedford had been unable to repair it. At the time, Cathy worked at Bedford, but knew that our service department had a reputation for fixing cars that other dealerships could not.
During that call, you brought up maybe wanting a GT2. At the time, Porsche had not made it official that they would be bringing the car to the US and I had no information on the car at all. I told you Chad, our Porsche manager, would give you the details of the car as we got them.
In the proceeding time period, you made repeated phone calls to Chad asking us to write a purchase agreement and take a deposit. We told you that we were not going to do that until we understood if we were even going to get a GT2.
My call to you yesterday was a courtesy call, since you had been asking so much about this car, to let you know our current thinking. It's really not that complicated. As I told you clearly yesterday, we are getting a GT2. We have not yet made the determination as to who we will sell it to and won't make that decision until the car arrives. As for the price, we have not decided on that either. You infer that our waiting means over MSRP. That's your assumption, not mine. The market price for the car may be below MSRP, MSRP, or above.
The point being we were giving you a courtesy call to let you know we could not commit the car to you right now. With that information, you could decide to wait and see, seek the car from another dealership, or buy a different model.
Pretty straigtforward.
As for the sophmoric insults you feel compelled to sling my way, let me say this. You don't know me, never met me, and seemed driven by some sort of bizarre anger.
Jamie, I'd challenge you to find one customer of either my Mercedes-Benz dealership or my Porsche dealership who has had anything other than a great experience.
Our "little" Porsche dealership has only been around for 18 months and we are the largest Porsche dealership in the mid-West (not including Chicago). That comes from giving customers fair deals and taking extraordinary care of them.
Bernie Moreno
440-665-8064 (cell)
440-716-2720 (office)
Any customer who would like to express their opinoin can always contact me directly.
First, I would normally not respond, but felt I owed it to my customers who have made postings here to do so. Second, I never asked Chris to post anything for me ... he is a very "enthusiastic" person and does what he feels he should.
Jamie, as you know, I did call you a few months back at Cathy's request. She told me how you were having problems with your R350 (or your wife's R350) and the Mercedes-Benz dealership in Bedford had been unable to repair it. At the time, Cathy worked at Bedford, but knew that our service department had a reputation for fixing cars that other dealerships could not.
During that call, you brought up maybe wanting a GT2. At the time, Porsche had not made it official that they would be bringing the car to the US and I had no information on the car at all. I told you Chad, our Porsche manager, would give you the details of the car as we got them.
In the proceeding time period, you made repeated phone calls to Chad asking us to write a purchase agreement and take a deposit. We told you that we were not going to do that until we understood if we were even going to get a GT2.
My call to you yesterday was a courtesy call, since you had been asking so much about this car, to let you know our current thinking. It's really not that complicated. As I told you clearly yesterday, we are getting a GT2. We have not yet made the determination as to who we will sell it to and won't make that decision until the car arrives. As for the price, we have not decided on that either. You infer that our waiting means over MSRP. That's your assumption, not mine. The market price for the car may be below MSRP, MSRP, or above.
The point being we were giving you a courtesy call to let you know we could not commit the car to you right now. With that information, you could decide to wait and see, seek the car from another dealership, or buy a different model.
Pretty straigtforward.
As for the sophmoric insults you feel compelled to sling my way, let me say this. You don't know me, never met me, and seemed driven by some sort of bizarre anger.
Jamie, I'd challenge you to find one customer of either my Mercedes-Benz dealership or my Porsche dealership who has had anything other than a great experience.
Our "little" Porsche dealership has only been around for 18 months and we are the largest Porsche dealership in the mid-West (not including Chicago). That comes from giving customers fair deals and taking extraordinary care of them.
Bernie Moreno
440-665-8064 (cell)
440-716-2720 (office)
Any customer who would like to express their opinoin can always contact me directly.
Bernie,
You are simply not telling the truth or feel the need to cover for Chad. And perhaps that's why Chad was not on the requested conference call yesterday morning and has been MIA since? CHAD REPEATEDLY TOLD ME THAT I COULD PUT THE DEPOSIT DOWN AS SOON AS THE ALLOCATION WAS CONFIRMED AND I COULD GO THROUGH THE ORDER SHEET AT THAT TIME. That's why I called the day Chad told me you were meeting with Don. It's simple Bernie, you are not honoring the agreement I had with Chad. Not only that, but you wasted my time. You even admitted to both points on the phone.
You are obviously going to say whatever you can to make yourself look like a reputable dealer. And I would at least hope you have some satisfied customers or you would have failed 12 months ago.I am not disputing the fact that you have the right to tell me to f*ck off. I also have the right to tell everyone how I was treated. My post is to warn anyone dealing with either yourself or Chad that you do not honor your agreements. And for that reason I will never step foot in your 'dealership' again.
Chris....as to your earlier post....your facts are still so far out of wack that you should stay out of this
I'm on my way to the golf course now. Good luck with your dealership.
Jamie
08-10-2007, 01:52 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Dariof
OhioGT2:
I wanted to keep this response professional, but let me tell you, it's difficult.
I purchased my Porsche Carrera S from Bernie and Chris about a year ago. In fact, of all the dealers I inquired with across the country, they treated me with the most respect and fair dealings.
I ordered my 997 from them, and they kept me apprised every step of the way as to its build stages. Then, Bernie and Chris coordinated the arrival of my car at their dealership with my arrival in Cleveland (from Las Vegas).
Here's what they did for me once I got off the airplane:
-Picked me up at the airport
-Brought me to the dealership to see my car and gave me a MZB rental car
-Reserved a room at the Ritz-Carlton for two nights, and charged it to their account
-Gave me a free tour of the Rock n' Roll Museum and had the President of the Museum conduct the tour.
-Took me out to breakfast and showed me the town the dealership is in
-Installed my V-1 and White Side Lights free of charge
-Allowed me to use an office (with Internet) so I could conduct business
-Took care of the registration and all paperwork
-Gave me 2 quarts of Mobil 1 for my drive home
-Oh yes, on the nights my car was at the dealership, they locked it in the service bay so it would be completely protected.
They were nothing but professional, honest and upfront. I have never experienced such a fine purchase experience from any dealership, and I can assure you, I can afford whatever car(s) I wish to purchase.
You have also posted in other forums. You obviously don't know how or when to let go. I feel sorry for you that you have this need to extract some sort of revenge through disparaging others like this.
One last note: You will have to look long and hard to find anyone else who feels as you do about Bernie, Chris and crew. In fact, many others in this thread have posted to say their experiences were vastly different than yours. You are definitely the lone wolf in your conclusions. I wonder what that may mean?
I wanted to keep this response professional, but let me tell you, it's difficult.
I purchased my Porsche Carrera S from Bernie and Chris about a year ago. In fact, of all the dealers I inquired with across the country, they treated me with the most respect and fair dealings.
I ordered my 997 from them, and they kept me apprised every step of the way as to its build stages. Then, Bernie and Chris coordinated the arrival of my car at their dealership with my arrival in Cleveland (from Las Vegas).
Here's what they did for me once I got off the airplane:
-Picked me up at the airport
-Brought me to the dealership to see my car and gave me a MZB rental car
-Reserved a room at the Ritz-Carlton for two nights, and charged it to their account
-Gave me a free tour of the Rock n' Roll Museum and had the President of the Museum conduct the tour.
-Took me out to breakfast and showed me the town the dealership is in
-Installed my V-1 and White Side Lights free of charge
-Allowed me to use an office (with Internet) so I could conduct business
-Took care of the registration and all paperwork
-Gave me 2 quarts of Mobil 1 for my drive home
-Oh yes, on the nights my car was at the dealership, they locked it in the service bay so it would be completely protected.
They were nothing but professional, honest and upfront. I have never experienced such a fine purchase experience from any dealership, and I can assure you, I can afford whatever car(s) I wish to purchase.
You have also posted in other forums. You obviously don't know how or when to let go. I feel sorry for you that you have this need to extract some sort of revenge through disparaging others like this.
One last note: You will have to look long and hard to find anyone else who feels as you do about Bernie, Chris and crew. In fact, many others in this thread have posted to say their experiences were vastly different than yours. You are definitely the lone wolf in your conclusions. I wonder what that may mean?
Hope you're feeling better....
As far as my experience being different from yours...well I won't state the obvious. Bernie may be unethical and greedy, but I doubt he is actually stupid
Jamie
08-10-2007, 02:06 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by OhioGT2
Dario,
Hope you're feeling better....
As far as my experience being different from yours...well I won't state the obvious. Bernie may be unethical and greedy, but I doubt he is actually stupid
Jamie
Hope you're feeling better....
As far as my experience being different from yours...well I won't state the obvious. Bernie may be unethical and greedy, but I doubt he is actually stupid
Jamie
08-10-2007, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by E55AMG
I forgot to mention - when I got back to my room from dinner it was full of strippers!! Thanks Chris!!
J/K thought i'd lighten things up a bit.
J/K
thought i'd lighten things up a bit.....ohhh man...... ha ha...
08-10-2007, 03:23 PM
#38
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To clarify this is Nero of Titan Motorsports.
Jamie is a good friend and actually told me a few months back no way would he get a GT2, he said its to much $, blah blah and I had to go over the joys of having such a car and reminded Jamie of how much he loved his GT2. Now realize there are a lot of talkers on the forums but Jamie is not one of them, he has a standing line of credit at Titan Motorsports and that's impossible to get typically. So when Jamie says he's buying something its a done deal. He spends more a year in the tuner market then most people spend on houses.
With that said I convinced him to get one and we went through the dealer list and I even said get on 2-3 dealer list's with deposits so you for sure get one, as the allocations are difficult to predict or get. So he started to do what when he went with Bernie's dealership since they had done business in the past and were likely to get a car. He wanted to order the car to spec and hence make sure he was on the list. He said these guys know me, want me to get the car and no one else is on the list and didn't want a deposit. We dicussed colors and options even that was to be his next step. I'm very disapointed at the actions of the dealer. How do you offer a car that isn't sold to somoene else? When you got a buyer right there. How is it that you want to wait when you got enthusiasts who always like to order these car's to spec. Its not a Cayman or Cayenne that you get off the floor because you want a car tomorrow its something a high % of Porsche TT, CGT, GT2, GT3 owners custom order.
On top of that why would you not sell a car for retail and know your making profit on it for sure, instead of maybe trying to dump it for below MSRP if there is no demand or pay flooring on a car that's $200k ? Because you want to make money and recent over MSRP of the GT3 and RS have made you think the GT2 will follow those lines.
I have a GT2 on order, I don't expect to be getting one but I'll tell you what I was already told its at MSRP and I can also re-assign it. I would give the car to Jamie in a heartbeat just out of goodwill and the situation he's in because I'd rather see a happy customer and give a little then loose one for good.
Jamie is a good friend and actually told me a few months back no way would he get a GT2, he said its to much $, blah blah and I had to go over the joys of having such a car and reminded Jamie of how much he loved his GT2. Now realize there are a lot of talkers on the forums but Jamie is not one of them, he has a standing line of credit at Titan Motorsports and that's impossible to get typically. So when Jamie says he's buying something its a done deal. He spends more a year in the tuner market then most people spend on houses.
With that said I convinced him to get one and we went through the dealer list and I even said get on 2-3 dealer list's with deposits so you for sure get one, as the allocations are difficult to predict or get. So he started to do what when he went with Bernie's dealership since they had done business in the past and were likely to get a car. He wanted to order the car to spec and hence make sure he was on the list. He said these guys know me, want me to get the car and no one else is on the list and didn't want a deposit. We dicussed colors and options even that was to be his next step. I'm very disapointed at the actions of the dealer. How do you offer a car that isn't sold to somoene else? When you got a buyer right there. How is it that you want to wait when you got enthusiasts who always like to order these car's to spec. Its not a Cayman or Cayenne that you get off the floor because you want a car tomorrow its something a high % of Porsche TT, CGT, GT2, GT3 owners custom order.
On top of that why would you not sell a car for retail and know your making profit on it for sure, instead of maybe trying to dump it for below MSRP if there is no demand or pay flooring on a car that's $200k ? Because you want to make money and recent over MSRP of the GT3 and RS have made you think the GT2 will follow those lines.
I have a GT2 on order, I don't expect to be getting one but I'll tell you what I was already told its at MSRP and I can also re-assign it. I would give the car to Jamie in a heartbeat just out of goodwill and the situation he's in because I'd rather see a happy customer and give a little then loose one for good.
08-10-2007, 03:52 PM
#39
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by titanmotorsports
To clarify this is Nero of Titan Motorsports.
Jamie is a good friend and actually told me a few months back no way would he get a GT2, he said its to much $, blah blah and I had to go over the joys of having such a car and reminded Jamie of how much he loved his GT2. Now realize there are a lot of talkers on the forums but Jamie is not one of them, he has a standing line of credit at Titan Motorsports and that's impossible to get typically. So when Jamie says he's buying something its a done deal. He spends more a year in the tuner market then most people spend on houses.
With that said I convinced him to get one and we went through the dealer list and I even said get on 2-3 dealer list's with deposits so you for sure get one, as the allocations are difficult to predict or get. So he started to do what when he went with Bernie's dealership since they had done business in the past and were likely to get a car. He wanted to order the car to spec and hence make sure he was on the list. He said these guys know me, want me to get the car and no one else is on the list and didn't want a deposit. We dicussed colors and options even that was to be his next step. I'm very disapointed at the actions of the dealer. How do you offer a car that isn't sold to somoene else? When you got a buyer right there. How is it that you want to wait when you got enthusiasts who always like to order these car's to spec. Its not a Cayman or Cayenne that you get off the floor because you want a car tomorrow its something a high % of Porsche TT, CGT, GT2, GT3 owners custom order.
On top of that why would you not sell a car for retail and know your making profit on it for sure, instead of maybe trying to dump it for below MSRP if there is no demand or pay flooring on a car that's $200k ? Because you want to make money and recent over MSRP of the GT3 and RS have made you think the GT2 will follow those lines.
I have a GT2 on order, I don't expect to be getting one but I'll tell you what I was already told its at MSRP and I can also re-assign it. I would give the car to Jamie in a heartbeat just out of goodwill and the situation he's in because I'd rather see a happy customer and give a little then loose one for good.
Jamie is a good friend and actually told me a few months back no way would he get a GT2, he said its to much $, blah blah and I had to go over the joys of having such a car and reminded Jamie of how much he loved his GT2. Now realize there are a lot of talkers on the forums but Jamie is not one of them, he has a standing line of credit at Titan Motorsports and that's impossible to get typically. So when Jamie says he's buying something its a done deal. He spends more a year in the tuner market then most people spend on houses.
With that said I convinced him to get one and we went through the dealer list and I even said get on 2-3 dealer list's with deposits so you for sure get one, as the allocations are difficult to predict or get. So he started to do what when he went with Bernie's dealership since they had done business in the past and were likely to get a car. He wanted to order the car to spec and hence make sure he was on the list. He said these guys know me, want me to get the car and no one else is on the list and didn't want a deposit. We dicussed colors and options even that was to be his next step. I'm very disapointed at the actions of the dealer. How do you offer a car that isn't sold to somoene else? When you got a buyer right there. How is it that you want to wait when you got enthusiasts who always like to order these car's to spec. Its not a Cayman or Cayenne that you get off the floor because you want a car tomorrow its something a high % of Porsche TT, CGT, GT2, GT3 owners custom order.
On top of that why would you not sell a car for retail and know your making profit on it for sure, instead of maybe trying to dump it for below MSRP if there is no demand or pay flooring on a car that's $200k ? Because you want to make money and recent over MSRP of the GT3 and RS have made you think the GT2 will follow those lines.
I have a GT2 on order, I don't expect to be getting one but I'll tell you what I was already told its at MSRP and I can also re-assign it. I would give the car to Jamie in a heartbeat just out of goodwill and the situation he's in because I'd rather see a happy customer and give a little then loose one for good.
Why is it OK to get on lists at a few different dealers when you only plan to buy one car? You squeeze other guys out and you know you'll stiff all but one dealer. But that's OK, right? You want a dealer to be right by you but you don't owe anyone else anything, right? Not the other dealers or your fellow Porsche-philes. After all, as long as you get what you want, everything is good, right?
Olmstead or anyone else can sell for whatever they want, that's called Capitalism. Tell me, what do you charge for your goods or services? What you want, right?
I have no argument with you or Ohio GT-2. Everyone is fine in my book. But you're advocating double-dealing and then dissing someone else for what you say is similar. But since both fellows are saying different things, and you were not there, you and I will never know who said what to whom.
Seems like the dealer has many supporters who speak from first hand experience and here you are saying what a jerk the delaer must be because he didn't go along with whatever you think was said. And, either way, your plan was to tie up multiple allotments of a rationed car.
Sometimes we tell on ourselves without meaning to...
08-10-2007, 04:16 PM
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First of all if you notice dealers almost always do orders and deposits fully refundable and don't care if they refund the $, they can always take a non-refundable deposit if they were concerned. 2nd I told Jamie if he got 2 GT2's and dint' want to keep both I'd buy the 2nd one
My friend just got a BMW that a customer canceled, the dealer had no problem refunding the deposit and selling the car to the next guy. Why because these cars sell regardless which is why the dealer doesn't usually care. If the car was a normal off the street deal then there would be no point in doing a deposit or making an order.
I'm good friends with Jamie and I understand the dealer is in the business to make money. No one here is denying that I'm in business to do the same as is Jamie, I just think and agree that why string along a customer and have him do a lot of work and effort to get a car and then not sell it to him. Especially when its a good customer.
Again I got my GT2 on order, and if I'm lucky to get one I will. If I put my order down for 2 and I got 2 I'd be happy to get them also. I've had my share of poor dealings with dealerships and i've had my share of great dealings with them. That's what happens when your in business and a car nut.
My friend just got a BMW that a customer canceled, the dealer had no problem refunding the deposit and selling the car to the next guy. Why because these cars sell regardless which is why the dealer doesn't usually care. If the car was a normal off the street deal then there would be no point in doing a deposit or making an order.
I'm good friends with Jamie and I understand the dealer is in the business to make money. No one here is denying that I'm in business to do the same as is Jamie, I just think and agree that why string along a customer and have him do a lot of work and effort to get a car and then not sell it to him. Especially when its a good customer.
Again I got my GT2 on order, and if I'm lucky to get one I will. If I put my order down for 2 and I got 2 I'd be happy to get them also. I've had my share of poor dealings with dealerships and i've had my share of great dealings with them. That's what happens when your in business and a car nut.
08-10-2007, 06:21 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
It's all good fellas. No sense in getting all worked up about a $200K rock. There's going to be lots of them floating around the way things are going. In the meantime you can see who the short term gainers are. 
Life is good!
Life is good!
08-10-2007, 07:16 PM
#42
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by titanmotorsports
First of all if you notice dealers almost always do orders and deposits fully refundable and don't care if they refund the $, they can always take a non-refundable deposit if they were concerned. 2nd I told Jamie if he got 2 GT2's and dint' want to keep both I'd buy the 2nd one
My friend just got a BMW that a customer canceled, the dealer had no problem refunding the deposit and selling the car to the next guy. Why because these cars sell regardless which is why the dealer doesn't usually care. If the car was a normal off the street deal then there would be no point in doing a deposit or making an order.
I'm good friends with Jamie and I understand the dealer is in the business to make money. No one here is denying that I'm in business to do the same as is Jamie, I just think and agree that why string along a customer and have him do a lot of work and effort to get a car and then not sell it to him. Especially when its a good customer.
Again I got my GT2 on order, and if I'm lucky to get one I will. If I put my order down for 2 and I got 2 I'd be happy to get them also. I've had my share of poor dealings with dealerships and i've had my share of great dealings with them. That's what happens when your in business and a car nut.
My friend just got a BMW that a customer canceled, the dealer had no problem refunding the deposit and selling the car to the next guy. Why because these cars sell regardless which is why the dealer doesn't usually care. If the car was a normal off the street deal then there would be no point in doing a deposit or making an order.
I'm good friends with Jamie and I understand the dealer is in the business to make money. No one here is denying that I'm in business to do the same as is Jamie, I just think and agree that why string along a customer and have him do a lot of work and effort to get a car and then not sell it to him. Especially when its a good customer.
Again I got my GT2 on order, and if I'm lucky to get one I will. If I put my order down for 2 and I got 2 I'd be happy to get them also. I've had my share of poor dealings with dealerships and i've had my share of great dealings with them. That's what happens when your in business and a car nut.
So if a fellow asks you to make accomodations for them and then calls up and says "sorry, I'll have the shop down the street do it", it's OK.
I guess all reality is subjective these days. No one is accountable...
08-10-2007, 07:58 PM
#43
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First off, buying a large volume car and not getting screwed has no real bearing on this GT2. Its a little different when the dealer thinks he has an opportunity for tens of thousands of dollars in pure profit.
Second, this is great. The dealer admits that you wanted to place a deposit and that he couldn't be honest enough to tell you straight out that there was any chance that you wouldn't get the car. Nice. So a potential customer doesn't pursue the car anywhere else based on your assurances and now he's lost two months and probably any chance of finding an allocation anywhere else. I guess taking advantage of people so often makes it seem like its normal.
Way to run a business.
Second, this is great. The dealer admits that you wanted to place a deposit and that he couldn't be honest enough to tell you straight out that there was any chance that you wouldn't get the car. Nice. So a potential customer doesn't pursue the car anywhere else based on your assurances and now he's lost two months and probably any chance of finding an allocation anywhere else. I guess taking advantage of people so often makes it seem like its normal.
Way to run a business.
08-10-2007, 08:03 PM
#44
Originally Posted by Likemystoppie?
To All ... this is Bernie, not Chris ...
As for the price, we have not decided on that either. You infer that our waiting means over MSRP. That's your assumption, not mine. The market price for the car may be below MSRP, MSRP, or above.
As for the price, we have not decided on that either. You infer that our waiting means over MSRP. That's your assumption, not mine. The market price for the car may be below MSRP, MSRP, or above.
I have no ties to either side. In fact, I am even willing to take you at your word. It could be that you are telling the truth, but that Chad and you were not on the same page, which could lead to unnecessary aggrevation for the customer.
But . . . I really don't understand the excerpt I quoted above. Does your dealership franchise with Porsche permit you to ask above MSRP for new cars? You say explicitly that you are considering whether to ask above MSRP for the car you are selling. If your dealership franchise permits you to ask above MSRP for new cars, I may strongly dislike the practice, but I would "understand" at some level. If you are not permitted to charge above MSRP, this statement seems very, very bad.
Which is it? Are you permitted to charge above MSRP, or are you required by your franchise agreement to charge only MSRP or below? Just curious.
TD
08-10-2007, 08:10 PM
#45
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My 2/08 GT2 allocation is in limbo, also due to the limited GT2 offerings (70 for US). No big deal, it is just a car. Something better always comes along later no matter what