Holli82

allegretto

You cannot please everyone if you run a retail business. Just is.

Now tell us Ohio GT-2, did they ask you to put a deposit down or not before they informed you that it was no longer available? Your story is vague on that and Stoppie here implies that they did.

And, FWIW in my mind ,they are free to do what they want with their cars. My local dealer did the same with the RS.I went elsewhere and got a great car and a great relationship so in the end...life goes on.

But as long as Ohio GT-2 has made it public, I'd like to know; did they give you a clean shot and you blinked, or did they just con you? Did they say $100K over list and you can buy it, or not?

Finally, I do think that some customers, by virtue of their support, do deserve some consideration. While some may not like that,if they would step back, they probably find themselves doing something like that in life too.

OhioGT2

Chris,

This is going to get fun

First I have no idea who you are. Nor were you ever directly or indirectly involved in any of these discussions. So I find it hysterical that Bernie sends you on here to talk for him And where's Chad? I know he's busy with their new baby, but I'm sure we would all like to hear from him too. I know I would since he chickened out on the conference call....

Second, I spoke with both of them about ordering a GT2 back around May. You're right, Bernie had no clue about what a GT2 was (and probably still doesn't). He asked me to educate him a bit about the car since I had a 02 and I was happy to do so. Later, I asked Chad AT LEAST 2-3 TIMES over multiple phone discussions to put down a deposit and he assured me it wasn't necessary since A) he wasn't 100% sure the dealership was going to get one (but assured me from all indications they had throughout the summer they were going to probably be the only Ohio dealer with an allocation) and B) repeatedly told me don't worry about a deposit...there is no one in line...they aren't talking to anyone....and as soon as they get confirmation, I would be set. So are telling me that Chad and Bernie were in fact talking to another customer and lied to me? Sounds like you are. Hell even Kathy, your new saleswomen (who initially introduced me to Bernie after I bought an R500 from her) was even calling me with updates as to when I could order it. Otherwise, why would I have wasted my time over multiple discussions over the past couple months if this was just for ****s-n-giggles? So Chris, are you up to speed now with the TRUTH? This was not a casual call.....but a whole series of discussions over a few months.

So when Bernie called me back this morning to basically tell me to f*ck-off and that he has decided to not honor what Chad represented and instead sell the car to highest bidder, that's when I understandably got upset. He never even said, listen Jamie, give me $10k over....I know it sucks, but they're rare and I want to make some extra money. He never even gave me the option. Bernie just told me....and I quote "why would I sell the car to you when you could turn around and sell it for a $100k over? So I decided to sell the car for 'market value' to someone who has bought multiple cars from me".

First, anyone who knows me would laugh if they heard I was going to flip this car. I had a date with Switzer and Protomotive to tear this thing apart and mod the living crap out of it as soon as I got it. We were all looking forward to next spring..... Second, to then state he is going to reward an existing customer by raping them over sticker proves the mentality of North Olmsted Porsche. You see, I later found out Bernie has been used to whoring out Boxsters and Caymans through internet specials to gain much needed volume, and as soon as he heard from Don Pierce this was going to be a limited production car, dollar signs clouded his ethical judgment. I was also told later today by one of your other very satisfied customers that you guys couldn't spell Porsche until you recently bought a crappy little dealership and merged it with the Mercedes business? Thirdly, for Bernie to think these cars are going to go for $100k over just proves what a true car guy he is. I really lost respect for him after that stupid comment.

So Chris, I can appreciate sticking up for your dealership, but the TRUTH is your boss is a greedy and unethical bastard, Chad is a liar, and poor Kathy is stuck in the middle. I hope all this negative publicity on all the forums is worth the extra cash Bernie gets to squeeze from one his 'previous' clients....because not only did he certainly loose my Mercedes and Porsche loyal family as a lifetime client but I will make sure all potential future (and current) customers I interact with during daily business and everyone I routinely socialize with and race against know what a standup dealership North Olmsted turned out to be. Hell, I even told Bernie although I didn't agree with it, that I could understand his short-term greed, since he is free to do whatever he pleases. But where he made his mistake was jerking me around for 3 months when I could have invested time with another dealer who actually honors their word and doesn't believe in taking advantage of customers.

I am willing to take a bet Bernie is glad you tried to lecture me on the TRUTH

Oh, and let Bernie know PM'ing David was a dumb idea. Now he has lost another customer over this. Not classy at all.

Jamie

mooty

sorry, i had a typo (hahaha, common for me), i knew GT2 was the subject.

i dont know the story and i dont really care. my personal way of doing business is as a business owner i can sell what i want and how much i want, that include illegal substances, prostitution, military weapons blah blah as long as you can answer to your conscience and sleep at night. that said, IF you told someone you will sell him something at some price, you better honor that. if i agree to sell you a GT2 at $x, and later someone offered me $2x, well, i fk'd up, i lost money but i will honor what i agreed to. integrity is more important than profit for me.

now i am not taking side in this story, i am just saying how i would run my business.

sharkster

It's very simple. I have done business with Jamie plenty of times. He is VERY easy to work with. Straight up, pays his bills with no fuss and is a pleasure to deal with. He is a car-nut and wants things done right and honestly. I have found that people expect to be told the truth. If I say I'm going to do something then I do it. That's why people like Jamie and other folks pay a lot of money for things on their cars. Are they wrong to expect honesty/integrity? I am sure if the guy had said at the begining, "Jamie, I would like to sell the car to you but I can't. I'm going to try and make a bunch of money from it since it's the only one I'm getting", Jamie would have said, "OK no problem. I'm a business guy and I understand". He would have gone elsewhere and figure it out. Instead it seems like he got led down the garden path and basically had the rug pulled from under him. Classic.

sharkster

Egg-effin-xactly. Spot on man.

OhioGT2

Thanks Alex and you are exactly right. I told that to Bernie twice in fact. But he didn't get it. Oh well, live and learn. I should have known not to deal with North Olmsted Porsche as they came out of nowhere recently yet somehow worked a deal to supposedly get the only GT2 in the state. But with these tactics, they won't last long. I'm going to see if Stoddard, Baker or MAG will get a late year allocation.

Alex, I'm a lifetime customer of Sharkwerks. Couldnt be happier with the free advice and great products you've sold me over the past year!

sharkster

my pleasure man.. really. I don't know what the "big deal" is about just being upfront and honest. It seems to be so very "difficult". I can honestly remember you telling me that you were number one at that dealer way before you came out last time. It was before it got hot here so it must have been Early May? We were talking about how we weren't keen on the bumper and about you selling the 6 GT2. I guess these days everything has to be done in writing since nobody can be trusted?

Baggerdude

I normally just scan this part of the board, mainly cuz I'm not all that interested in GT cars. I drive P-cars as daily's, so a GT2 parked in the lot with 400 SUVs and minivans driven by female bank tellers would not be a good thing.

But, I found the title of this thread intriguing ... so I started reading. And, I was pretty surprised at what Jamie (Ohio GT2) was writing. Certainly was not MY experience with PNO.

Now, I was not involved with the deal, I don't know the truth about the dealings Jamie had with Porsche of North Olmsted .... but, that said, I have had personal dealings with the dealership just this past Spring.

I'm not a first time car buyer here .... I buy/lease/flip cars all the time. But, this was my 1st time with PNO. I'm not a BIG time, high end sort of fella, just someone who likes new cars often ... so, I'm pretty familiar with how dealers treat their customers. That is the primary reason I traveled from Connecticut to Ohio to get my (ahemm ...) little o'C4S.

I tried to deal with some local dealers here in CT, MA and RI .... but, I continued to get that slimy feeling after shaking hands. Talk about lack of honesty and professionalism ... yep. And, how about greed? They were all selling at sticker and above. They made me fell like they were doing ME a favor by even speaking with me.

Not Porsche of North Olmsted. I got wind of PNO from the 997 side of the board. Called Bernie directly and within a few minutes he offered me a great deal on the car. I was honest with him, told him I had no trade in, that I would be leasing the car for 24 months with nothing down and asked if he had an allocation for a C4S (which was somewhat rare). He said there was an allocation and that he would give me $7500 off sticker. I was pleased.

He then told me to contact Chad Lozon (sales manager) and deal with him directly. I found Chad extremely personable and forth coming. He gave me excellent advice on some options I was considering and some after delivery farkles that I wanted, too. Heck, they hardwired my Valentine 1 and installed some clear markers at no charge. Yes, I know that's not a BIG deal, but it was a nice gesture. I even spent the nite at the Ritz on them!

Chis picked me up at the airport, brought me to the dealership and spent over 2 hours with me going over the car. He introduced me to Chad, the service manager (altho he knew I was not coming back to PNO for service from CT), and several other folks. I found the guys in the service area attentive, personable, clean and interested in making my car special for me. I appreciated that.

Chris and Chad gave me a map of the area and told me to take the car out for a couple hundred miles .... see that everything works as I wanted and to come back with any problems. If any would be found (none were, of course), they would correct them immediately.

Now, I'm pretty EZ to get along with. I'm very specific with my cars equipment and normally have to order cars because of my specific desires. With many of my past dealing with other dealers, I was left cold. I've had to fight to get deposits returned, constantly call to see if this or that was being taken care of, deal with folks that are less than "on my side". I have to say that PNO, Bernie, Chad, Chris and the gang there ALL treated me with great respect, the did what they said they would do and I am over the top pleased with my results. I plan to get another car there and continue the relationship as well with Mercs that my SO likes so very much.

I don't know exactly what Jamie's deal with Bernie/Chad was .... but, his experience is NOT what I found in mine. My advice to folks looking for a great deal from a dealership that will work with you and help you at every turn is to give PNO a shot. If you find yourselves in a situation like Jamie .... well, I'm full of sh*t. But, I think you (like me and MANY others here) will be extremely pleased with your choice.

Just my .02. I still don't want a GT2, tho. Toooo fast for me !

E55AMG

I feel bad for Jamie that this did not work out for him. His experience with PNO does not mirror mine however.

I recently traded my '06 997S to PNO for an '07 TT. Ordered back in Nov. or Dec. Dealt with Chris and I couldn't have been happier with how I was treated. I was asked how many miles were on my C2S when I ordered and was given a number - higher than what I was offered locally. 6 months later when my TT came in my C2S obviously had several thousand more miles on it than when I first discussed. I'm sure they weren't happy about that but did not say a word and honored the trade in price they gave me. I was also given a discount on a fairly expensive option for the TT.

I must have called/e-mailed literally hundreds of times checking in, status update, etc. I was answered almost immediately every time.

when the car arrived they offered to transport it up here and pick up my C2S. I declined and instead wanted to fly out and take road trip back home They still sent a truck to pick up my C2S.

I flew out and Chris met me at the airport. PNO had arranged to put me up at the Ritz Carlton at their expense. Chris dropped me off so I could get settled and was back a few hours later to take me to Morton's for dinner. The next morning he was back to pick me up and drove me to the dealership where my car was waiting for me. Finished everything up and I was on my way.

This was my 1st dealings with them and I was very happy with my experience. I had never bought a car out of state before and checked in with a few other 'listsers here who had and their treatment by PNO was similiar to what I experienced.

Likemystoppie?

To add to this and clarify:

Ironically as Bernie has corrected me; he decided NOT to make a decision about the cars fate. The conversation between Bernie and Jamie was about an 'update' on the car- and the part about $100k over sticker? That was in reference to the Ferrari you both were speaking about. NOT the GT2.

You Jamie, were still in the list of 'possible' buyers even after you hung up the phone. Instead of sitting down or calling Bernie back and asking for clarification: you decided to act upon an irrational- knee-jerk-reaction- and run off at the mouth.

My suggestion Jamie- why don't you just confront the person you're venting about- rather then spout off at the mouth irrationally.


Seriously man- we're all great people here- and anyone who's had any dealings with us (who's purchased cars or not) know that fact too...
You've taken things completely out of context.

richk

Why should OhioGT2 have to call your dealership and try to resolve this? He is the client and should be treated as such...your dealership needs to resolve this one way or another.

FWIW, I don't have a problem with Porsche dealers selling cars for over sticker unlike alot of people on this site.

Likemystoppie?

To All ... this is Bernie, not Chris ...

First, I would normally not respond, but felt I owed it to my customers who have made postings here to do so. Second, I never asked Chris to post anything for me ... he is a very "enthusiastic" person and does what he feels he should.

Jamie, as you know, I did call you a few months back at Cathy's request. She told me how you were having problems with your R350 (or your wife's R350) and the Mercedes-Benz dealership in Bedford had been unable to repair it. At the time, Cathy worked at Bedford, but knew that our service department had a reputation for fixing cars that other dealerships could not.

During that call, you brought up maybe wanting a GT2. At the time, Porsche had not made it official that they would be bringing the car to the US and I had no information on the car at all. I told you Chad, our Porsche manager, would give you the details of the car as we got them.

In the proceeding time period, you made repeated phone calls to Chad asking us to write a purchase agreement and take a deposit. We told you that we were not going to do that until we understood if we were even going to get a GT2.

My call to you yesterday was a courtesy call, since you had been asking so much about this car, to let you know our current thinking. It's really not that complicated. As I told you clearly yesterday, we are getting a GT2. We have not yet made the determination as to who we will sell it to and won't make that decision until the car arrives. As for the price, we have not decided on that either. You infer that our waiting means over MSRP. That's your assumption, not mine. The market price for the car may be below MSRP, MSRP, or above.

The point being we were giving you a courtesy call to let you know we could not commit the car to you right now. With that information, you could decide to wait and see, seek the car from another dealership, or buy a different model.

Pretty straigtforward.

As for the sophmoric insults you feel compelled to sling my way, let me say this. You don't know me, never met me, and seemed driven by some sort of bizarre anger.

Jamie, I'd challenge you to find one customer of either my Mercedes-Benz dealership or my Porsche dealership who has had anything other than a great experience.

Our "little" Porsche dealership has only been around for 18 months and we are the largest Porsche dealership in the mid-West (not including Chicago). That comes from giving customers fair deals and taking extraordinary care of them.

Bernie Moreno
440-665-8064 (cell)
440-716-2720 (office)

Any customer who would like to express their opinoin can always contact me directly.

Dariof

OhioGT2:

I wanted to keep this response professional, but let me tell you, it's difficult.

I purchased my Porsche Carrera S from Bernie and Chris about a year ago. In fact, of all the dealers I inquired with across the country, they treated me with the most respect and fair dealings.

I ordered my 997 from them, and they kept me apprised every step of the way as to its build stages. Then, Bernie and Chris coordinated the arrival of my car at their dealership with my arrival in Cleveland (from Las Vegas).

Here's what they did for me once I got off the airplane:

-Picked me up at the airport
-Brought me to the dealership to see my car and gave me a MZB rental car
-Reserved a room at the Ritz-Carlton for two nights, and charged it to their account
-Gave me a free tour of the Rock n' Roll Museum and had the President of the Museum conduct the tour.
-Took me out to breakfast and showed me the town the dealership is in
-Installed my V-1 and White Side Lights free of charge
-Allowed me to use an office (with Internet) so I could conduct business
-Took care of the registration and all paperwork
-Gave me 2 quarts of Mobil 1 for my drive home
-Oh yes, on the nights my car was at the dealership, they locked it in the service bay so it would be completely protected.

They were nothing but professional, honest and upfront. I have never experienced such a fine purchase experience from any dealership, and I can assure you, I can afford whatever car(s) I wish to purchase.

You have also posted in other forums. You obviously don't know how or when to let go. I feel sorry for you that you have this need to extract some sort of revenge through disparaging others like this.

One last note: You will have to look long and hard to find anyone else who feels as you do about Bernie, Chris and crew. In fact, many others in this thread have posted to say their experiences were vastly different than yours. You are definitely the lone wolf in your conclusions. I wonder what that may mean?

Cowhorn

Yeah, but that's only because you won the Indy 500 and are married to one of the Judds!