TraqGear

Maybe a short education will help a lot of us newbies out.
Do cups have more power than a stock GT3 997? If so, in what way...more 0-60, 20-100, torque, hp etc.?
How much better is the handling with a cup than a GT3?
Do you have to buy a 997 cup to get the goodies or will a 996 do the trick?
Compare the 996 to the 997 cup..ie. power and handling.
Is it a waste of money unless you are going to race, or will the common track junkie be able to justify the cost?
Do you need to have a great deal of knowledge about the mechanics of the engine, drivetrain and suspension, or do you leave that up to the shop?
Give an average expected yearly cost of ownership excluding the actual cost of the car...lets say doing 10 driving event during the year.
Comment on the different experiences. Thanks!

Ed Newman

Cup is same power but less weight and better gearing.

Handling is significantly better

Waste of money unless you are seriously racing

Cost to run a cup is about $1000.00 per hour

leif997

ding ding ding.....correct answer from Mr. Newman...$1000/hr if hardcore racing is your goal; but you can come in far lower during your initial learning period.

not a waste of money if you are serious about exploring your own limits and furthering your on track education...you can never stop learning; why not give yourself the best tools to do so with?

the manangement knowledge will be best left to a pro shop with pro support trackside, but you will passively absorb much info though basic osmosis and your ability to give feed back to your support crew wrt track setups will also improve over time.

If you have the means and the interest; it can and will be a very rewarding experience....only problem is that your street cars will seem very sedate afterwards...

jrgordonsenior

The engine internals are different, other than the block, though the HP figures are similar. Actually I think the street version is rated at 415HP/300lbs torque, while the Cup's at 400HP/400 lbs torque. There the similarity ends...

The 7-Cup has a sequential dog type gear box with significantly different gear ratios, a 40/60 LSD with 4:00 gearing, a 5.5 tripe disc clutch, single mass flywheel, and 380/350mm brakes. It weighs about 560 lbs. less than the street version. I remember the first time I heard a sequential go by me. Beautiful noise....

The 7-Cup suspension is an upgraded version of the street car with Sachs non-adjustable dampers, double springs, 2-piece lower control arms, and an innovative blade type adjustable roll bar. I believe the upper control arm attachment points may be different though I'm not positive.

The 996 Cup is IMHO a better club racing platform simply because it has ABS. Additionally, there are very few 7-Cups being raced at at the Club level, while the GTC-3 (6-Cups) are the the most popular class at most races. There were something like 40 of them at Sebring, and 25 at Mid Ohio this year. I've raced against enough 7-Cups to know that they're slightly faster, and definitely quicker through the corners. How much that matters depend on the capabilities of the driver. The really fast 6-Cup drivers like Chris Brown back East, or Drew Waterhouse out West, give the 7-Cups all they can handle and then some. For an amateur racer the 6-Cup is plenty of car for the first few years and then hopefully the 7-Cups will have become more readily available for Club racing in the next few years.

A mechanic well versed with Cup's can handle all your needs. They're really pretty basic. Your main costs are the wear items such as tires, front pads & rotors, oil services, and more tires. Set up is everything in these cars. Once you finally get dialed in to the car you will absolutely wonder why you wasted so much money on street cars.

Costs for 10 weekend events (2 days each) is a tough question since it varies but tires are by far your largest expense. One set of slicks per weekend @ $1,800. for Michelin Cups figuring using older sets for practice (tire management becomes an art form), 5 oil services @ $150. per, 1 set of pads & rotors @ $900., with the real possibility you'll need another set before the years through if you learn to drive it hard. Of course any accidents or breakage will significantly change this rosy scenario. FWW, I've never come close to spending $ 1,000 per hour. I went 1-1/2 years hard racing, probably 40 hours, without anything breaking at all. Nothing, zero, zip. Then in my first race this year I cracked the forward tranny mount ending my weekend. Next time out my pressure plate blew on the second lap of my favorite race at Cal Speedway. Since then I've crashed into a fellow Cup racer's side door, but that was driver error. Costs were a used front bumper cover @ $500., a new front fender from Sunset Porsche @ $285., a LF radiator @ $400, some misc. parts and paint. Pretty reasonable costs....


All-in-all it's a race car versus a highly defined street car. Once you've driven a Cup you'll sell the kids for one. You'll start looking at trailers on your way home. They're that impressive....

leif997

JR;...I was also factoring in professional transport and multiple day trackside support and flights and hotels and 2 -3 sets of tires per weekend and fuel.....all said and done; a race weekend can easily approach 10K or more for the long haul, multiday race weekend and if you can get 10 hours out on the track in that 3 day event it would be a miracle....day 1; 4-6 25 minute T&T runs, day 2; 3 practice sessions and a fun race at 20-30 minutes each and 40 minute sprint race. day 3; 20 minute warmup, 25 minute qualifying and a 90 minute enduro and a 2nd sprint if you are real lucky.....it actually can work out to more than 1K/hour if you care to look the evil CC bill in the eye

It is absolutely so much more economical to do all support and transportation by yourself but it is not within my time constraints to do so....I wish it was

OldGuy

Geesh I dont know anybody (now Lief) that can fly to events and have the car dropped off and stay at hotels. The guys I know like JR, Seege (where did that boy go??) and some of my VARA friends trailer to the track. Sleep in their Motorhomes-toy haulers or what ever and spend the weekend at the track.
(Is there a Hotel in Rosamond-hourly? Edwards AFB Officers quarters maybe)
There was one Viper guy(SCCA) who showed up and climbed into his new factory delivered Viper after he was freshly showered at the Hilton. But most of the guys I know -even the open wheel boys are tinkering in their garages drinking Coors Lite working on their 2.0 ford (ford 2000 guys) or vintage 911-then load it up and off they go. But here we live within driving distance of Willow Springs, Fontana, ButtonWillow, Laguna Seca, Thunderhill and Infineon. Maybe its different back East?

icon

oohhhh, i see there young fella!
so it's california . . . or "back east"!?
you guys are definitely lucky when it comes to availability of nice tracks.
i was just teasin norm and dont really know him well, but it he did post it was a time constraint issue.
also posted b/f that he's a surgeon.
you dont want him leaving someone on the cuttin table, just so's he can take a rig to a race do ya?
and you're not going to deny norm his play time just cause he dont have time to drive, are ya?
be kinda silly to rent a motorhome ta sleep in after flyin there wouldnt it?
so it dont have much to do w/ bein from "back east".
sides, everybody knows you californians got all the money!
just cause norm's daddy bought him his own learjet, and personal pilot, don't mean he's a spoilt wuss . . . oops!
messin w/ norm again! jus cant help myself!

J.PELLEGRINO

I have had a fair amount of experience with this topic from all angles so I think I am qualified to render an opinion. The cost to run a 996sc is far more than 1k per hour. If you consider the true costs such as tires,fuel and brakes as well as factoring in the cost of periodic engine and gear box rebuilds even at wider intervals than the factory recommends you will very quickly exceed you 1k per hour budget. We have clients that race the cars as well as many that drive them at DE events and a properly maintained car can be very fast and equally reliable. The key to this is treating the vehicle like the race car that it is....Good luck

leif997

Looks like its my turn in the barrel again ....and the learjet is broken and my pilot is in rehab, and my brother took off in the spare jet, for your info....can I borrow yours?

OldGuy

You know my brother works at GulfStream in Dallas at Love Field (seriously) and he wont let me borrow any OR come pick me up and take me to events -Can you believe that?

RSRRacer

Here is the bottom line for a 996 Cup.

If you want to show up at the track and have your car prepped and ready, plan on $2K per hour. This includes transport and support costs and most of your T & E costs to get to the track. (Unless your "E" is like some people I know)

Race weekend, to be competitive, is 2 new sets of tires at $2K each set.

Worth every dime if you can afford it!

leif997

disown him...

TraqGear

Thanks guys...very informative. Unless I hijack a leprechaun (or a surgeon), I don't think I can stomach the funds to do it. Also, that was pretty funny icon. However, I did read an ad in the latest Panorama that offers cup car time in 996's and 997's. I might give that a whirl. Anyone know anything about it? Thanks for being so detailed JR. Let me know if you guys do any east coast events in the future. It would be awesome to see several cups in action.

C.J. Ichiban

okay how's this for a scenario- with all these boutiquey country club race tracks- let's say you just rent or buy one of those paddocks and get to keep your trailer and cup car there, and you're not "racing" but tracking it for a few sessions per month to "learn with the best tools" at the early stages of your track time continuum.

I for one am not allowed due to my contract to participate in 'timed racing events' anyways, so if I wanted to get a cup car at my local motorsports country club track, how much different would the running costs be?

I'm looking to get a dedicated track car in the next two years anyway- and I don't think I'd want to leave my street gt3 tucked in a paddock all the time...

or is it really worth the hassle to just get the street gt3, a few alignments, and beat her up on road and track?

Nordschleife

If you have a dedicated track car, it is advisable that it has a home other than a box in a paddock in the middle of nowhere.

If you are short of time, you will need somebody, to change pads, check rotors, check oil and water, adjust the suspension and re-align as required, order and fit new tyres, get spare tyres and rims to the circuit, make adjustments, clean everything up between each time you drive on track. Using a proper race shop can be very beneficial, you are tapping into people who have a wider experience than you and who produce cars for their customers to drive as part of their everyday operations. Its also really convenient to have guys to change tyres and monoitor their temperatures, advise on getting the car set up properly, take it home for you at the end of the day when you are tight for time.

These guys have to find the parts you need in a hurry, you don't have to put your job on hold to organise your hobby. Sure its not without cost, but I bet their chargeout rate is way under your chargeout rate!

R+C