My GT3 RS may be for sale
04-02-2007, 10:00 PM
#62
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Nick - are you being obtuse on purpose? The Stradale is a track oriented 360 Modena. The upcoming LP will be a track oriented version of the 430. The RS is a track oriented version on the 911 GT3. What's not to like?
Since I have a foot on both the Ferrari and Porsche camps let me weigh in on the Enzo/CGT issue.
Ferrari was very careful about who got Enzos/ You had to be a member of the family. Porsche on the other hand got taken by speculators hoping to make a quick buck. Production went from 500 to 1000 and more. Since Enzo buyers had to be pre-qualified (quick buck artists did not make the cut) the Enzo increased in value.
Best,
Since I have a foot on both the Ferrari and Porsche camps let me weigh in on the Enzo/CGT issue.
Ferrari was very careful about who got Enzos/ You had to be a member of the family. Porsche on the other hand got taken by speculators hoping to make a quick buck. Production went from 500 to 1000 and more. Since Enzo buyers had to be pre-qualified (quick buck artists did not make the cut) the Enzo increased in value.
Best,
04-02-2007, 10:04 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by Nick
I am absoultely amazed that people are willing to pay a premium for a Porsche which is essentially a track car and nothing more. I personally have no doubt that this perceived "frenzy" will be short lived.
What is funny is most owners of the RS probably would do better track times in a 997TT or even a GT3. Yet people are falling all over themselves to pay substantially over sticker. The RS value will tank as soon as the next "great" Porsche" is introduced i.e. GT2 or the 997TT X whatever.
Finally, it is a mistake to classify the RS along with the CGT. The CGT is a supercar and the RS an overblown track car and not a great at that. The GT3 is close in performance and the 997TT better. The CGT to borrow a phrase will make the RS look like it was tied to a tree stump on a track. AND yet, people are shelling out money over MSRP for it. Maybe its the silly big wing?
What is funny is most owners of the RS probably would do better track times in a 997TT or even a GT3. Yet people are falling all over themselves to pay substantially over sticker. The RS value will tank as soon as the next "great" Porsche" is introduced i.e. GT2 or the 997TT X whatever.
Finally, it is a mistake to classify the RS along with the CGT. The CGT is a supercar and the RS an overblown track car and not a great at that. The GT3 is close in performance and the 997TT better. The CGT to borrow a phrase will make the RS look like it was tied to a tree stump on a track. AND yet, people are shelling out money over MSRP for it. Maybe its the silly big wing?
Let's see. Premium for a track car? WTF is the Stradale? A Z06? Z06+? The various track focused Evos? Track cars based on a more sedate platform *always* fetch a premium. But I reckon since you don't go to the track, it's a footnote to you as you read C&D.
Better track times in a 997 TT or GT3? I cannot discern WTF are you talking about. You seem to have a bug up your bonnet in trying to prove a point yet smear it with ignorant statements. I'd like to hear your reasoning on how the GT3 will turn a faster lap than an RS. I'm all ears.
OTOH, I somewhat agree on the 997 TT, but weight eventually catches up to you in terms of tire wear, brake wear, but most importantly *fun*. The 997 TT is a technological tour de force that removes a portion of the driver from the equation, and ultimately track hounds are after the buzz, crack, you know, the go-fast track pipe (but since you don't go to the track you probably have no clue WTF I'm talking about).
Values tank? Maybe, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find an RS owner who'll give a schit b/c the cars are brilliant.
Your CGT comparo is hilarious. A 440k supercar vs. a 123k 911 derivative.
Silly big wing? OK, we agree on one thing.
You are out of your league here. Stick with what you know; track commentary from someone who doesn't go to the track is as useful as **** on a bull.
04-02-2007, 10:11 PM
#64
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Originally Posted by Nick
I am absoultely amazed that people are willing to pay a premium for a Porsche which is essentially a track car and nothing more. I personally have no doubt that this perceived "frenzy" will be short lived.
What is funny is most owners of the RS probably would do better track times in a 997TT or even a GT3. Yet people are falling all over themselves to pay substantially over sticker. The RS value will tank as soon as the next "great" Porsche" is introduced i.e. GT2 or the 997TT X whatever.
Finally, it is a mistake to classify the RS along with the CGT. The CGT is a supercar and the RS an overblown track car and not a great at that. The GT3 is close in performance and the 997TT better. The CGT to borrow a phrase will make the RS look like it was tied to a tree stump on a track. AND yet, people are shelling out money over MSRP for it. Maybe its the silly big wing?
What is funny is most owners of the RS probably would do better track times in a 997TT or even a GT3. Yet people are falling all over themselves to pay substantially over sticker. The RS value will tank as soon as the next "great" Porsche" is introduced i.e. GT2 or the 997TT X whatever.
Finally, it is a mistake to classify the RS along with the CGT. The CGT is a supercar and the RS an overblown track car and not a great at that. The GT3 is close in performance and the 997TT better. The CGT to borrow a phrase will make the RS look like it was tied to a tree stump on a track. AND yet, people are shelling out money over MSRP for it. Maybe its the silly big wing?
Some cars in Porsche history beget a following where the demand far exceeds the supply. Check out prices of some of the 993 and even 964 models. The 1997 Turbo S today commands more $$$$ than a spanking new, heavily optioned, 997TT sitting in a showroom. To call the RS an "overblown" track car? And to say a TT's performance is better is the call of ignorance...have u driven an RS yet?
I've spent plenty of hours and miles behind the wheel of my Turbo S and it's a great car. The RS is an EXTRAORDINARY CAR!!!
04-03-2007, 10:26 AM
#65
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Originally Posted by icon
do you really think demand is "several times" current supply of the RS?
or did you just mean higher?
Jeff,
One last point about supply/demand. In a PAG press release, they said that they sold 6,000 Turbos last year. As the US buys roughly 50% of PAG's production, that would mean 3,000 in the US. Assuming 229 units for the RS in the US, the supply of Turbos in the US is 13.1 times the supply of RS's. I suspect you would agree that we could easily have demand for several times the number of RS's, given the Turbo sales. Correct?
Ray
'07 RS
04-03-2007, 10:26 AM
#66
Originally Posted by Nick
I am absoultely amazed that people are willing to pay a premium for a Porsche which is essentially a track car and nothing more. I personally have no doubt that this perceived "frenzy" will be short lived.
What is funny is most owners of the RS probably would do better track times in a 997TT or even a GT3. Yet people are falling all over themselves to pay substantially over sticker. The RS value will tank as soon as the next "great" Porsche" is introduced i.e. GT2 or the 997TT X whatever.
Finally, it is a mistake to classify the RS along with the CGT. The CGT is a supercar and the RS an overblown track car and not a great at that. The GT3 is close in performance and the 997TT better. The CGT to borrow a phrase will make the RS look like it was tied to a tree stump on a track. AND yet, people are shelling out money over MSRP for it. Maybe its the silly big wing?
What is funny is most owners of the RS probably would do better track times in a 997TT or even a GT3. Yet people are falling all over themselves to pay substantially over sticker. The RS value will tank as soon as the next "great" Porsche" is introduced i.e. GT2 or the 997TT X whatever.
Finally, it is a mistake to classify the RS along with the CGT. The CGT is a supercar and the RS an overblown track car and not a great at that. The GT3 is close in performance and the 997TT better. The CGT to borrow a phrase will make the RS look like it was tied to a tree stump on a track. AND yet, people are shelling out money over MSRP for it. Maybe its the silly big wing?
Guys I will settle this RS premium right here right now.
As I mentioned a few weeks ago in the other thread, the reason the RS is going $20-30K above MSRP is b/c of the CDN market.
In the US the RS MSRP is $128 US in Canada an RS MSRP's at $147K-$151KUS.
On March 31 2007 PCNA announced that US cars will no longer be elligible for warranty claims in Canada. Too many cars were being bought in the US and sold in Canada.
Prior to March 31 2007 if a dealer wanted to make extra money he can sell his car to a CDN or an American "dumb" enough to pay the ridiculous premium. SO it wouldn't matter to the dealer if an American stepped up to the plate and bought this over priced RS, because he knew he can always sell it in Canada - with still a full warranty - to a Canadian.
04-03-2007, 02:07 PM
#68
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
Nick - are you being obtuse on purpose? The Stradale is a track oriented 360 Modena. The upcoming LP will be a track oriented version of the 430. The RS is a track oriented version on the 911 GT3. What's not to like?
Since I have a foot on both the Ferrari and Porsche camps let me weigh in on the Enzo/CGT issue.
Ferrari was very careful about who got Enzos/ You had to be a member of the family. Porsche on the other hand got taken by speculators hoping to make a quick buck. Production went from 500 to 1000 and more. Since Enzo buyers had to be pre-qualified (quick buck artists did not make the cut) the Enzo increased in value.
Best,
Since I have a foot on both the Ferrari and Porsche camps let me weigh in on the Enzo/CGT issue.
Ferrari was very careful about who got Enzos/ You had to be a member of the family. Porsche on the other hand got taken by speculators hoping to make a quick buck. Production went from 500 to 1000 and more. Since Enzo buyers had to be pre-qualified (quick buck artists did not make the cut) the Enzo increased in value.
Best,
The RS is being pumped up as the next coming of the CGT when in fact by all accounts it provides little to no enhancement in performance compared to the GT3 for most drivers. Yet this car is getting an alleged $50,000 over MSRP. Its performance relative to the CGT which is now being discounted by 33% is not in the same league. There is something wrong in Porsche world when a mediocre (relative to Porsche standards) performing car is fetching a premium over MSRP.
I guess the answer is provided by Frayed comments. As long as it looks like it is a race car with labelling on the side and a big wing on the back there is a small number of Porschephiles who are willing to pay an exorbitant sum for the car because emotion overcomes reason. Some really believe that they can extract the little more performance offered by the RS. It is a fools errand.
Last edited by Nick; 04-03-2007 at 02:33 PM.
04-03-2007, 02:33 PM
#69
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Hmmm...
Originally Posted by Nick
...in fact by all accounts it [997RS] provides little to no enhancement in performance compared to the GT3 for most drivers....
Some really believe that they can extract that the little more performance offered by the RS. It is a fools errand.
Some really believe that they can extract that the little more performance offered by the RS. It is a fools errand.
What percent of car/bike buyers can drive their machines to the limit? In fact, why don't these buyers go to the same tracks where the magazines tested and compare the times? A lot of people do track days; I have yet to see the lap times of the day.
04-03-2007, 02:34 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by Nick
The RS is being pumped up as the next coming of the CGT.
04-03-2007, 03:26 PM
#71
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Nick - if you look at a Porsche as an investment then I agree that paying over list is silly. On the other hand there is the "gotta-have-it" factor which is clearly in play. Ferrari manages this sort of thing better and the mid engined cars don't depreciate much until a new model comes out. On the other hand, the 550 and 575 dropped like a stone so even Maranello isn't perfect.
Based on past experience, I am fairly confident that the RS will be built for quite a while longer and supply will meet and probably exceed demand.
As to the performance advantages, isn't it too early to tell? The cars have just started to arrive. I think we'll know more in a few months. Heck I haven't even driven mine yet and won't until the bloody snow stops.
Best,
Based on past experience, I am fairly confident that the RS will be built for quite a while longer and supply will meet and probably exceed demand.
As to the performance advantages, isn't it too early to tell? The cars have just started to arrive. I think we'll know more in a few months. Heck I haven't even driven mine yet and won't until the bloody snow stops.
Best,
04-03-2007, 03:34 PM
#72
Originally Posted by Nick
The RS is being pumped up as the next coming of the CGT when in fact by all accounts it provides little to no enhancement in performance compared to the GT3 for most drivers. Yet this car is getting an alleged $50,000 over MSRP. Its performance relative to the CGT which is now being discounted by 33% 
is not in the same league. There is something wrong in Porsche world when a mediocre (relative to Porsche standards) performing car is fetching a premium over MSRP.
I guess the answer is provided by Frayed comments. As long as it looks like it is a race car with labelling on the side and a big wing on the back there is a small number of Porschephiles who are willing to pay an exorbitant sum for the car because emotion overcomes reason. Some really believe that they can extract the little more performance offered by the RS. It is a fools errand.
is not in the same league. There is something wrong in Porsche world when a mediocre (relative to Porsche standards) performing car is fetching a premium over MSRP. I guess the answer is provided by Frayed comments. As long as it looks like it is a race car with labelling on the side and a big wing on the back there is a small number of Porschephiles who are willing to pay an exorbitant sum for the car because emotion overcomes reason. Some really believe that they can extract the little more performance offered by the RS. It is a fools errand.
I really liked that big, black thigamajig on the rear-end. It had this real purty design in it..... kinda like the duct tape I use to fix all my broken thangs around da house. 
Plus those big, black letters and numbers on the side der really made it easy for people to read instead of those darn little logos that makes dem all keep asking you "What the heck kinda car is that Mister?"
And to top it off, the guy in charge of da place selling me the Porch said he would give it to me at sumptin called MSRP. When I asked what that was he said that's the piece of paper glued on the side window!
And I said "Oh nooooo you don't! I dun herd people is paying a lot more than what that glued paper says and you aint gonna cheat me out of having a sports car that aint as much money as dem der other peoples cars! 
I wanna pays you way over that glued paper so I can say "See....... my car is mor money dan yours!" I showed him! And he thought I was dumb and he was gonna cheat my ****! 
When I showed my friends my new car and they asked me what dem numbers and alphabets was meaning, I told dem it's the size of the ingin and dat RS meant 'really special'. Den one guy says to me, "I think it means Really Stupid!" Was he being mean to me?
Hey Nick.... You don't like my big, black hickamajigger on da back of my new Orange Porch? You're a mean man... Mr. Nick!
da Mags
04-03-2007, 03:48 PM
#73
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Originally Posted by Nick
No one has stepped up to deny the points I made relative to the RS.
Everyone is holding their breath, just hoping you'll go away so they won't have to hear your biased anti Porsche diatribe again as you continually spew forth the same garbage in multiple forums over and over.
Why you continue to visit a Porsche oriented forum is beyond many I'm sure...
04-03-2007, 04:00 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by LUISJR993
No it's not. I love it how it's ok to pay $50k over MSRP for a regular 430 all day long, but when somebody is paying $50k over for a special/limited production Porsche it's a "fools errand". You have no idea what you are talking about Nick, I suggest you stick to the Ferrari stuff.
The CGT, limited production now selling for 1/3 off MSRP.
GT2, limited production all selling below MSRP.
The 996GT3, limited production selling substantially below MSRP.
Shall I go on or have you had enough?
Look enjoy your RS. You may be one of the few that can extract the extra performance and make it worth your money and time. Hopefully you are not paying over MSRP.
Those of you that want to look to past Porsche models as evidence that they retain value, I remind you that Porsche is a very different car company today. What in the past was unique and special is today ordinary and ubiquitous.
04-03-2007, 04:07 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by magwheel
YUP..... that's me! I really liked that big, black thigamajig on the rear-end. It had this real purty design in it..... kinda like the duct tape I use to fix all my broken thangs around da house.
Plus those big, black letters and numbers on the side der really made it easy for people to read instead of those darn little logos that makes dem all keep asking you "What the heck kinda car is that Mister?"
And to top it off, the guy in charge of da place selling me the Porch said he would give it to me at sumptin called MSRP. When I asked what that was he said that's the piece of paper glued on the side window! And I said "Oh nooooo you don't! I dun herd people is paying a lot more than what that glued paper says and you aint gonna cheat me out of having a sports car that aint as much money as dem der other peoples cars! I wanna pays you way over that glued paper so I can say "See....... my car is mor money dan yours!" I showed him! And he thought I was dumb and he was gonna cheat my ****!
When I showed my friends my new car and they asked me what dem numbers and alphabets was meaning, I told dem it's the size of the ingin and dat RS meant 'really special'. Den one guy says to me, "I think it means Really Stupid!" Was he being mean to me?
Hey Nick.... You don't like my big, black hickamajigger on da back of my new Orange Porch? You're a mean man... Mr. Nick! da Mags
I really liked that big, black thigamajig on the rear-end. It had this real purty design in it..... kinda like the duct tape I use to fix all my broken thangs around da house. Plus those big, black letters and numbers on the side der really made it easy for people to read instead of those darn little logos that makes dem all keep asking you "What the heck kinda car is that Mister?"
And to top it off, the guy in charge of da place selling me the Porch said he would give it to me at sumptin called MSRP. When I asked what that was he said that's the piece of paper glued on the side window!
And I said "Oh nooooo you don't! I dun herd people is paying a lot more than what that glued paper says and you aint gonna cheat me out of having a sports car that aint as much money as dem der other peoples cars! I wanna pays you way over that glued paper so I can say "See....... my car is mor money dan yours!" I showed him! And he thought I was dumb and he was gonna cheat my ****! When I showed my friends my new car and they asked me what dem numbers and alphabets was meaning, I told dem it's the size of the ingin and dat RS meant 'really special'. Den one guy says to me, "I think it means Really Stupid!" Was he being mean to me?
Hey Nick.... You don't like my big, black hickamajigger on da back of my new Orange Porch? You're a mean man... Mr. Nick!
da Mags
