Dyno'd the RS today
02-05-2007 | 01:37 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,594
Likes: 84
Originally Posted by RR
yeah there were 3.
The quiet one on the website, a loud version, and an xtra loud version, which is the best sounding exhaust available for the GT3, hands down.
The quiet one on the website, a loud version, and an xtra loud version, which is the best sounding exhaust available for the GT3, hands down.
02-05-2007 | 04:50 PM
#33
Pro
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 677
Likes: 0
From: Birmingham, AL
Nordschleife
The idea that "what do Revo engineers know that all the engineers at Weissach and Zuffenhausen don't know?" is way off the mark, however a common misconception. Its not that Revo engineers know anymore (or as much) as the guys at Weissach. Its that Revo engineers know how to extract extra HP that Porsche purposely (for two reasons; I believe) leaves on the table.
1) I have read MANY times that timing, etc must take into account the absolute worst case scenario as to the worst possible gas that may be used in any country that the car will be sold in.
2) And I've been trying to get people to realize this for years! Do you ever wonder why every year, Porsche manages to squeeze out an additional 10-15Hp out of a model? It's really simple, and should be apparent. Quoting a recent article in The Robb Report "Ruf maintains a steady business thanks to Porsche's "model policy" of incrementally improving a car's performance from one year to the next". There's no other way to explain why each and every year, on each and every model, they raise the Hp from 10-15Hp over the previous year.
To me, it's kind of like batteries. Does anyone really believe that every year or so they come up with a "new and improved" way to make a Duracell lasts longer! They same damn alkaline battery inside that it always has been. It's marketing! Which brings up another point (not to be crude, but I think it's a good example). Take one of the absolute, most simplistic items I can think of; a tampon. They expect women to believe that every 4 to 6 months they've come up with some new and revolutionary way to improve it! Well they've got me on that one. Give me a string and a piece of cotton and I'm afraid my ideas are extremely limited.
The idea that "what do Revo engineers know that all the engineers at Weissach and Zuffenhausen don't know?" is way off the mark, however a common misconception. Its not that Revo engineers know anymore (or as much) as the guys at Weissach. Its that Revo engineers know how to extract extra HP that Porsche purposely (for two reasons; I believe) leaves on the table.
1) I have read MANY times that timing, etc must take into account the absolute worst case scenario as to the worst possible gas that may be used in any country that the car will be sold in.
2) And I've been trying to get people to realize this for years! Do you ever wonder why every year, Porsche manages to squeeze out an additional 10-15Hp out of a model? It's really simple, and should be apparent. Quoting a recent article in The Robb Report "Ruf maintains a steady business thanks to Porsche's "model policy" of incrementally improving a car's performance from one year to the next". There's no other way to explain why each and every year, on each and every model, they raise the Hp from 10-15Hp over the previous year.
To me, it's kind of like batteries. Does anyone really believe that every year or so they come up with a "new and improved" way to make a Duracell lasts longer! They same damn alkaline battery inside that it always has been. It's marketing! Which brings up another point (not to be crude, but I think it's a good example). Take one of the absolute, most simplistic items I can think of; a tampon. They expect women to believe that every 4 to 6 months they've come up with some new and revolutionary way to improve it! Well they've got me on that one. Give me a string and a piece of cotton and I'm afraid my ideas are extremely limited.
02-05-2007 | 05:04 PM
#34
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,569
Likes: 9
From: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted by e6tme
But two points- 1) Porsche tests a sample of their engines not every single engine they build
Every engine that is assembled is put on the dyno.
The dyno results are then part of the cars dossier.
02-05-2007 | 05:16 PM
#35
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,722
Likes: 0
From: Munich
Originally Posted by e6tme
I agree that quoting anything other than wheel horsepower off a chassis dyno is pointless.
However, you are wrong about fuel, fuel in the US, and what Hans and Klaus have left for the legitimate tuner to exploit.
Take the Tesco 99 that Glenn refers to. The "99" reflects that fuel's research octane number (RON). Compute with the motor octane number (MON) of 87, (RON+MON/2) and you get a 93 AKI (anti-knock index) which is how all fuels in the US are classified. Generally, 93AKI fuel can be readily found throughout the US, (except for CA where they have to deal with 91AKI) Therefore, the 93 AKI fuel in the states is better than the typical 95 and 98 RON fuels available in Europe.
Take the Tesco 99 that Glenn refers to. The "99" reflects that fuel's research octane number (RON). Compute with the motor octane number (MON) of 87, (RON+MON/2) and you get a 93 AKI (anti-knock index) which is how all fuels in the US are classified. Generally, 93AKI fuel can be readily found throughout the US, (except for CA where they have to deal with 91AKI) Therefore, the 93 AKI fuel in the states is better than the typical 95 and 98 RON fuels available in Europe.
Additionally, you may have a point with regard to Porsche's testing engines and sending those back which fall either above or below 5% of the advertised horsepower.
But two points- 1) Porsche tests a sample of their engines not every single engine they build 2) The engines are engineered and tested on a base fuel likely to be readily available in all markets the car is sold- typically 95RON/91AKI. Furthermore, they have to comply with various emissions rules etc and obviously the factory tune will be somewhat conservative so the engine will maintain a modicum of economy and reliability.
So there is indeed something "left on the table" by Porsche. All engines will have some degree of variance, and extracting that last 5, 10, 20 or whatever bhp by tuning the engine for only the highest quality fuel is certainly possible and is routinely done.
But two points- 1) Porsche tests a sample of their engines not every single engine they build 2) The engines are engineered and tested on a base fuel likely to be readily available in all markets the car is sold- typically 95RON/91AKI. Furthermore, they have to comply with various emissions rules etc and obviously the factory tune will be somewhat conservative so the engine will maintain a modicum of economy and reliability.
So there is indeed something "left on the table" by Porsche. All engines will have some degree of variance, and extracting that last 5, 10, 20 or whatever bhp by tuning the engine for only the highest quality fuel is certainly possible and is routinely done.
Qualita cars in Europe expect to receive 98 RON at all times.
When I have my engine tuned by decent engineeers, I get better fuel economy, lower emissions and improved fuel economy, interestingly.
R+C
02-05-2007 | 06:42 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 321
Likes: 9
From: USofA
Originally Posted by Nordschleife
there is more tzo fuel than octane, 25 per cent of Porsches used to be sold in California, you cannot ignore that market. I am told by Audi that the engine in the RS4 is not able to make proper use of all of its 'smart' features in the US, because overall, the fuel is poor quality.
I agree all fuel is not created equal, see http://www.toptiergas.com/ for more info.
Originally Posted by Nordschleife
Are you CERTAIN Porsche dont 100 percent test their erngines?
Originally Posted by Nordschleife
When I have my engine tuned by decent engineeers, I get better fuel economy, lower emissions and improved fuel economy, interestingly.
R+C
R+C
