Originally Posted by pole position

Dear Mooty,

Let me give you a little fact based info, not net hearsay.

Most deposits are a grand, maybe two or five. Some are only cc deposits which can be disputed at any time. Some dealers require double digit deposits and that really weeds out the talkers from the doer's because you might be out of ten to twenty G's for 6-12 months......also you usually get a receipt and sometimes it states "AT MSRP" but no vin or order ref #. Now if you get bumped or the dealership returns the money your legal recourse is severly limited and any chance to actually make it into a courtroom are slim to none and if I would be a betting man , would take none.

If you have in fact a pro forma in hand with your name /order ref # on it it gets tricky. Your chance in court improve slightly but not by much.

On example, I let you figure out the names : in the mid nineties a customer ordered a car to his spec w/pro forma bla.bla and never received it due to market demand...........from the current top dealership on the West coast. said customer ,after several years of legal manouvering went to court and battled both Pcna /dealership and lost convincingly in front of a jury.......fact not fiction.

Originally Posted by leif997

Interesting little disclaimer I just found on my Pro Forma Invoices for the base GT3 and the RS

..."all information in this document is subject to change w/o notice. PCNA and PAG accept not liability arising from the information contained herein.

Only the actual invoice issued by PCNA at the time this vehicle is purchased by the dealer may be used as an official indication of pricing..."

WOW...seems that we can infact be SOL at the dealer's discretion? Fortunately, my dealer is a standup guy.

Originally Posted by mooty

no, leif, you are NOT SOL.
the actual invoice issued by PCNA to the dealer will not be 20-30k over what the "expected" msrp. and i dont think we would have a prob if PCNA had to deviate a bit from orig MSRP for some reason. however, the disclaimer you stated does NOT allow dealer to add mkt adj. no worries.

Originally Posted by leif997

Interesting little disclaimer I just found on my Pro Forma Invoices for the base GT3 and the RS

..."all information in this document is subject to change w/o notice. PCNA and PAG accept not liability arising from the information contained herein.

Only the actual invoice issued by PCNA at the time this vehicle is purchased by the dealer may be used as an official indication of pricing..."

WOW...seems that we can infact be SOL at the dealer's discretion? Fortunately, my dealer is a standup guy.

Originally Posted by mooty

i am well aware that the usual deposit is $1k and for some preferred customers no deposit is required. i personally know of someone who buys every "low" production porsches made. he doen'st drive it, he just buys them (dont ask me why, i dont know). the understanding b/n him and the dealership is that he gets one of every "candy" that's worth owning. and without deposit , he gets all of them.

in my mind, the way i do business, the deposit is a courtesy, it is meaningless. it is a formality. you can tell me verbally, write it on paper or give me a 20 page contract with 85 witnesses... they are all pretty much formality to ME. my words carry some wt and i expect ppl i do business with also treat their words with respect. say if you and i made an agreement, we know we made an agreement and if **** hits the fence, we know who fk'd whom. the victim will only be fk'd once. victim will seek revenge, economically or otherwise.

RS is a car, but it should be treated as just like anything else. principles must be held intact.

the examples i stated are facts (the large deposits)
i am sure you are speaking of facts as well and i dont dispute it.
thus for me, personally, i usually refuse to put any deposit at all. in the RS case, i decided to show my dealer that i am committed and paid the higher than normal deposit after i have pro forma invoice and a purchase stating RS at msrp. while it is true without VIN, a law suit would be difficult. but do not underestimate the power of today's internet. in the 90's, internet is at its infancy. if say 5-10 ppl are fk'd by the same dealer, new will get out. porsche customer pool is not all that large. when words starts to fly around, things get ugly.

here in nor cal, many of us know where a car came from, who's the org dealer, how it traded hands b/n dealers or individual, at or above or below msrp. several of these ppl are on this board and just dont say much to the public (you know who you are ;-)... unfair practices will be noticed. now i am not saying profits cannot be made, but it has to be made legit.

i dont have the resources nor the boredom to fight with PAG or BH porsche and i dont do business with BH. but dont be surprised that are some ppl who are extremely bored and will take issues when the are treated unfairly through legal means or not. i know plenty of groups that belive they ARE the legal system

Originally Posted by leif997

thanks Mooty; not that I am sweating it, but it is always good to know that all well during this incredible wait....can't help but get paranoid sometimes with the trolls stomping around.

Originally Posted by pole position

The case went to court in this century...........with the net already in full swing.

Originally Posted by McKenna Porsche

everything is very simple, do not deal with bad dealerships or salespeople, why don't you guys create a some kind of rating system for the dealers and salespeople you dealt with in the past, so anyone can look at it and not to deal w/bad guys? open a new thread and i send the link to all my customers to rate me and the dealership i work for.

Originally Posted by tagheuer

LOL. Mckenna told me the same thing about a "premium"...except it was going to 100k over. I don't know what they're smoking but good luck with that.

Originally Posted by jimhuber

I have been looking for another build spot for the RS. The only action I can find is at Mckenna in CA.. The dealer has a white RS and wants 50K over and I think I might buy because it seams that the car is not going to be made for the next year and demand is as strong as death. The sticker of the white RS is around 150K so 200K plus tax and fees. Not as steep as the RUF mentioned in another thread. I will post he spec. when the e mail comes from the dealership.

Originally Posted by grussell

I don't get it! just buy a GT3 for 115k and you will have 99% the car. add a few bits and I would be surprised if you didn't have a better car. Why spend 200k? what a joke!

Originally Posted by Jon70

IMO, no currently produced Porsche is or ever will be worth more than MSRP. $50K over list is pure lunacy.