GT3 facts and sunroof considerations
11-30-2006, 02:24 AM
#61
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"Every kilo (2.2 lbs) of fuel weight saved translates to a .05-second-quicker race lap" <== Jim Hall. Shell and Ferrari's Technical Partnership.
I lost my first SCCA Solo Nationals this year by 0.35 secs per day (0.7 secs after two days). I ran at 2,760 lbs, 260 lbs over minimum weight for the class, and 370 lbs below the stock weight with the same fuel load. From my own measurements, my car is about 0.4 secs faster on a 60 secs lap for every 100 lbs I remove from it. I do care about unnecessary extra weight.
I did care about the mandatory power top on the 997 GT3, but I'm glad a real RS minus bolt-on items, and optional "sunroof delete" is coming to America. I don't care about the street 997 GT3 anymore.
The only thing stopping me for getting the RS is timing. I don't know the exact weight for the US version (actual weight, not marketing weight). I don't know how much more power it has compared to my 996 (real power, not marketing power). I don't know if disconnecting the PASM will cause an error on the throttle response or ABS. I don't know if the ABS will get crazy with aftermarket wheels and race tires in 18" and the TPMS.
I will wait for at least a year of development, that will take until Summer 2008. At that point, Olaf Manthey and Alois RUF will have enough upgrades for the 997 RS, the 997 GT2 will be available, the 997 Cup could be allocated for Club Racers, and probably the new RUF RGT will be out. In the meantime, I will enjoy my current car which is faster than any 997 GT3 RS coming to these venues.
I would like Porsche to build 100 RS per year for two years, or just 200 for a one year production. No more than that. Build as many GT3 as the market wants, and more, but limit the RS production.
I lost my first SCCA Solo Nationals this year by 0.35 secs per day (0.7 secs after two days). I ran at 2,760 lbs, 260 lbs over minimum weight for the class, and 370 lbs below the stock weight with the same fuel load. From my own measurements, my car is about 0.4 secs faster on a 60 secs lap for every 100 lbs I remove from it. I do care about unnecessary extra weight.
I did care about the mandatory power top on the 997 GT3, but I'm glad a real RS minus bolt-on items, and optional "sunroof delete" is coming to America. I don't care about the street 997 GT3 anymore.
The only thing stopping me for getting the RS is timing. I don't know the exact weight for the US version (actual weight, not marketing weight). I don't know how much more power it has compared to my 996 (real power, not marketing power). I don't know if disconnecting the PASM will cause an error on the throttle response or ABS. I don't know if the ABS will get crazy with aftermarket wheels and race tires in 18" and the TPMS.
I will wait for at least a year of development, that will take until Summer 2008. At that point, Olaf Manthey and Alois RUF will have enough upgrades for the 997 RS, the 997 GT2 will be available, the 997 Cup could be allocated for Club Racers, and probably the new RUF RGT will be out. In the meantime, I will enjoy my current car which is faster than any 997 GT3 RS coming to these venues.
I would like Porsche to build 100 RS per year for two years, or just 200 for a one year production. No more than that. Build as many GT3 as the market wants, and more, but limit the RS production.
11-30-2006, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by NJ-GT
"Every kilo (2.2 lbs) of fuel weight saved translates to a .05-second-quicker race lap" <== Jim Hall. Shell and Ferrari's Technical Partnership.
I lost my first SCCA Solo Nationals this year by 0.35 secs per day (0.7 secs after two days). I ran at 2,760 lbs, 260 lbs over minimum weight for the class, and 370 lbs below the stock weight with the same fuel load. From my own measurements, my car is about 0.4 secs faster on a 60 secs lap for every 100 lbs I remove from it. I do care about unnecessary extra weight.
I did care about the mandatory power top on the 997 GT3, but I'm glad a real RS minus bolt-on items, and optional "sunroof delete" is coming to America. I don't care about the street 997 GT3 anymore.
The only thing stopping me for getting the RS is timing. I don't know the exact weight for the US version (actual weight, not marketing weight). I don't know how much more power it has compared to my 996 (real power, not marketing power). I don't know if disconnecting the PASM will cause an error on the throttle response or ABS. I don't know if the ABS will get crazy with aftermarket wheels and race tires in 18" and the TPMS.
I will wait for at least a year of development, that will take until Summer 2008. At that point, Olaf Manthey and Alois RUF will have enough upgrades for the 997 RS, the 997 GT2 will be available, the 997 Cup could be allocated for Club Racers, and probably the new RUF RGT will be out. In the meantime, I will enjoy my current car which is faster than any 997 GT3 RS coming to these venues.
I would like Porsche to build 100 RS per year for two years, or just 200 for a one year production. No more than that. Build as many GT3 as the market wants, and more, but limit the RS production.
I lost my first SCCA Solo Nationals this year by 0.35 secs per day (0.7 secs after two days). I ran at 2,760 lbs, 260 lbs over minimum weight for the class, and 370 lbs below the stock weight with the same fuel load. From my own measurements, my car is about 0.4 secs faster on a 60 secs lap for every 100 lbs I remove from it. I do care about unnecessary extra weight.
I did care about the mandatory power top on the 997 GT3, but I'm glad a real RS minus bolt-on items, and optional "sunroof delete" is coming to America. I don't care about the street 997 GT3 anymore.
The only thing stopping me for getting the RS is timing. I don't know the exact weight for the US version (actual weight, not marketing weight). I don't know how much more power it has compared to my 996 (real power, not marketing power). I don't know if disconnecting the PASM will cause an error on the throttle response or ABS. I don't know if the ABS will get crazy with aftermarket wheels and race tires in 18" and the TPMS.
I will wait for at least a year of development, that will take until Summer 2008. At that point, Olaf Manthey and Alois RUF will have enough upgrades for the 997 RS, the 997 GT2 will be available, the 997 Cup could be allocated for Club Racers, and probably the new RUF RGT will be out. In the meantime, I will enjoy my current car which is faster than any 997 GT3 RS coming to these venues.
I would like Porsche to build 100 RS per year for two years, or just 200 for a one year production. No more than that. Build as many GT3 as the market wants, and more, but limit the RS production.
How much sense does it make to take a GT3 RS at $140K and try to make it into a track car???? Race Wheels, disconnecting the PASM ?? are you kidding me. you can have way more for far less money and better resale in a Cup Car.
Just get a cup car and be done with it!!!
The 997's are starting to pop up on the used market and any 996 cup will be way faster around the track than any street GT3 RS or any heavy old thing RUF will be putting out.
Let's let track cars be track cars and street cars be street cars. Too much cross over for my blood.
Joe
11-30-2006, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by NJ-GT
I don't know if disconnecting the PASM will cause an error on the throttle response or ABS.
997s cars in europe came with an optional passive "sport suspension" instead of PASM which various people have bought in the US, see suncoast motors, and used to replace PASM as well as other aftermarket suspension components that have been used while disconnecting PASM (some even work while keeping PASM)
hope this helps
11-30-2006, 09:23 AM
#65
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Frayed, he not only drove one, he bought one
Took delivery last week. Search and yea shall find.
Best,
Took delivery last week. Search and yea shall find.Best,
11-30-2006, 10:32 AM
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First of all, there are many reasons not to buy a cup car. Maintainence is a key factor. Also racing in that league requires alot of money to be at the top. We're talking magnitudes of difference.
I am getting a GT-3 with the sunroof. If I had the choice, I wouldn't get the hole but I don't have that choice. The truth is if the hole bothers you so much, it can be removed. Just order the euro parts and have a body shop do the rest. To me, since I will never open it, I will probably remove the motor and clamp it shut and never think about it again. There's not enough weight up there for anyone here to notice. We're talking F-1 noticing a few pounds on a 3000 pound car. Let's be serious. The real issue is choice. I should be allowed the choice but it isn't stopping me from buying the car I want. And it won't tarnish the fun I will have with it. I'm very happy that I have the ability and resources to buy it and that there is a company producing such an exciting car. These types of cars probably won't be available to anyone in a hundred years so let's all have some fun.
I am getting a GT-3 with the sunroof. If I had the choice, I wouldn't get the hole but I don't have that choice. The truth is if the hole bothers you so much, it can be removed. Just order the euro parts and have a body shop do the rest. To me, since I will never open it, I will probably remove the motor and clamp it shut and never think about it again. There's not enough weight up there for anyone here to notice. We're talking F-1 noticing a few pounds on a 3000 pound car. Let's be serious. The real issue is choice. I should be allowed the choice but it isn't stopping me from buying the car I want. And it won't tarnish the fun I will have with it. I'm very happy that I have the ability and resources to buy it and that there is a company producing such an exciting car. These types of cars probably won't be available to anyone in a hundred years so let's all have some fun.
11-30-2006, 10:36 AM
#67
I have always wondered whether a decent compromise for a DE car would be to put a stock GT3 motor into a cup car. Of course you would not have as much HP, but you also would not have the rebuild costs.
Then I come back to reality and realize that a much better approach is just to have a stock dual use GT3, which is exactly what it was built for.
Then I come back to reality and realize that a much better approach is just to have a stock dual use GT3, which is exactly what it was built for.
11-30-2006, 10:49 AM
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Hi Bob -
Can't wait to hear your impressions of the GT3 vs the F430, on street and track.
Gary
Can't wait to hear your impressions of the GT3 vs the F430, on street and track.
Gary
Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
On the sun roof, since I'm getting an RS the issue is moot. I would prefer that the GT3 offer the delete option, but it would not stop me from buying an extraordinary car. A minor blemish on an otherwise outstanding car.
I got to drive one, and like Colm, I am very impressed. The car is superb and anything else pales beside it. The sound is, well you have to hear it. I thought the 430 was awesome. The GT3 is its equal, more baritone at low revs and a similar scream over 5000. I could go on, but I won't. Those who pass on a GT3 because of the sun roof are IMO (only) making a big mistake. And before I get flamed by the purists, yes, I owned and loved a 993.
As for the comment about electronic nannies .. Traction Control? This is not PSM. Need I point out that F1 cars have traction control to make them faster off the line and out of corners? If you dislike it, turn it off. PASM is not PSM although some seem to confuse them. The adjustable suspension is a nice feature. Track stiff when you want it and not so punishing for the ride home.
Regards,
I got to drive one, and like Colm, I am very impressed. The car is superb and anything else pales beside it. The sound is, well you have to hear it. I thought the 430 was awesome. The GT3 is its equal, more baritone at low revs and a similar scream over 5000. I could go on, but I won't. Those who pass on a GT3 because of the sun roof are IMO (only) making a big mistake. And before I get flamed by the purists, yes, I owned and loved a 993.
As for the comment about electronic nannies .. Traction Control? This is not PSM. Need I point out that F1 cars have traction control to make them faster off the line and out of corners? If you dislike it, turn it off. PASM is not PSM although some seem to confuse them. The adjustable suspension is a nice feature. Track stiff when you want it and not so punishing for the ride home.
Regards,
11-30-2006, 11:27 AM
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Gary - that report will have to wait til April or May. Tracks open late April around here and my RS is a March delivery. I am very pleased with my 430 it has been a model of reliability - no hassles at all.
11-30-2006, 04:17 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by NJ-GT
"Every kilo (2.2 lbs) of fuel weight saved translates to a .05-second-quicker race lap" <== Jim Hall. Shell and Ferrari's Technical Partnership.
I lost my first SCCA Solo Nationals this year by 0.35 secs per day (0.7 secs after two days). I ran at 2,760 lbs, 260 lbs over minimum weight for the class, and 370 lbs below the stock weight with the same fuel load. From my own measurements, my car is about 0.4 secs faster on a 60 secs lap for every 100 lbs I remove from it. I do care about unnecessary extra weight.
I did care about the mandatory power top on the 997 GT3, but I'm glad a real RS minus bolt-on items, and optional "sunroof delete" is coming to America. I don't care about the street 997 GT3 anymore.
The only thing stopping me for getting the RS is timing. I don't know the exact weight for the US version (actual weight, not marketing weight). I don't know how much more power it has compared to my 996 (real power, not marketing power). I don't know if disconnecting the PASM will cause an error on the throttle response or ABS. I don't know if the ABS will get crazy with aftermarket wheels and race tires in 18" and the TPMS.
I will wait for at least a year of development, that will take until Summer 2008. At that point, Olaf Manthey and Alois RUF will have enough upgrades for the 997 RS, the 997 GT2 will be available, the 997 Cup could be allocated for Club Racers, and probably the new RUF RGT will be out. In the meantime, I will enjoy my current car which is faster than any 997 GT3 RS coming to these venues.
I would like Porsche to build 100 RS per year for two years, or just 200 for a one year production. No more than that. Build as many GT3 as the market wants, and more, but limit the RS production.
I lost my first SCCA Solo Nationals this year by 0.35 secs per day (0.7 secs after two days). I ran at 2,760 lbs, 260 lbs over minimum weight for the class, and 370 lbs below the stock weight with the same fuel load. From my own measurements, my car is about 0.4 secs faster on a 60 secs lap for every 100 lbs I remove from it. I do care about unnecessary extra weight.
I did care about the mandatory power top on the 997 GT3, but I'm glad a real RS minus bolt-on items, and optional "sunroof delete" is coming to America. I don't care about the street 997 GT3 anymore.
The only thing stopping me for getting the RS is timing. I don't know the exact weight for the US version (actual weight, not marketing weight). I don't know how much more power it has compared to my 996 (real power, not marketing power). I don't know if disconnecting the PASM will cause an error on the throttle response or ABS. I don't know if the ABS will get crazy with aftermarket wheels and race tires in 18" and the TPMS.
I will wait for at least a year of development, that will take until Summer 2008. At that point, Olaf Manthey and Alois RUF will have enough upgrades for the 997 RS, the 997 GT2 will be available, the 997 Cup could be allocated for Club Racers, and probably the new RUF RGT will be out. In the meantime, I will enjoy my current car which is faster than any 997 GT3 RS coming to these venues.
I would like Porsche to build 100 RS per year for two years, or just 200 for a one year production. No more than that. Build as many GT3 as the market wants, and more, but limit the RS production.
You are much better off holding to a cheaper Older car (like Dave Newman) and spent time and $ developing it, and most importantly driving the wheels off it.
Those 0.35s are a lot easier to improve by driving than by finding 100lbs to strip off the car. The time variance in AutoX is gigantic compared to what it is at the track.
The GT3 and the RS are Street trackable cars. i don't get your point on why you want limited RS numbers? To hold resale value?
If that's the case, then I will seriously question your strategy of dissassembling the car part by part over the first year of ownership... that has to hurt the trade-in value....
11-30-2006, 06:42 PM
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Colm, thanks for taking the time offline to shoot the bull. Interesting that Colm had/has a 996 GT3 and 997S (two cars that I owned) and GT2, and was quite surprised by the GT3's street manners and driving experience. Sounds like a winner! (sunroof be damned)
11-30-2006, 08:59 PM
#73
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Frayed, when I grow up I want to be Colm!
