GT3 facts and sunroof considerations
11-29-2006, 09:30 PM
#46
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why should this topic not be discussed? as for the sunroof alot of people made alot of effort and as for 07GT3 we lost a choice but won for GT3RS and maybe 08, I havent heard anyone here question the genuineness or realness of those who have the sunroof bottom line its the principle and maybe I am a poseur but I dont care even if you give me more headroom, its still less than the non sunroof car and you cant make it as stiff as the non sun roof car and I dont like the sunroof because its hard to wax around there
Last edited by dark knight; 11-29-2006 at 10:02 PM.
11-29-2006, 09:50 PM
#47
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Jason, I am checking too. I do know that there are a variety of waivers for low volume cars. Ferrari needed ne for the 430 - something to do with airbags as I recall. It nearly stopped shipments to the US, they got a waiver til sometime in 2008 when they will have a revised model.
Best,
Best,
11-29-2006, 10:19 PM
#48
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On the sun roof, since I'm getting an RS the issue is moot. I would prefer that the GT3 offer the delete option, but it would not stop me from buying an extraordinary car. A minor blemish on an otherwise outstanding car.
I got to drive one, and like Colm, I am very impressed. The car is superb and anything else pales beside it. The sound is, well you have to hear it. I thought the 430 was awesome. The GT3 is its equal, more baritone at low revs and a similar scream over 5000. I could go on, but I won't. Those who pass on a GT3 because of the sun roof are IMO (only) making a big mistake. And before I get flamed by the purists, yes, I owned and loved a 993.
As for the comment about electronic nannies .. Traction Control? This is not PSM. Need I point out that F1 cars have traction control to make them faster off the line and out of corners? If you dislike it, turn it off. PASM is not PSM although some seem to confuse them. The adjustable suspension is a nice feature. Track stiff when you want it and not so punishing for the ride home.
Regards,
I got to drive one, and like Colm, I am very impressed. The car is superb and anything else pales beside it. The sound is, well you have to hear it. I thought the 430 was awesome. The GT3 is its equal, more baritone at low revs and a similar scream over 5000. I could go on, but I won't. Those who pass on a GT3 because of the sun roof are IMO (only) making a big mistake. And before I get flamed by the purists, yes, I owned and loved a 993.
As for the comment about electronic nannies .. Traction Control? This is not PSM. Need I point out that F1 cars have traction control to make them faster off the line and out of corners? If you dislike it, turn it off. PASM is not PSM although some seem to confuse them. The adjustable suspension is a nice feature. Track stiff when you want it and not so punishing for the ride home.
Regards,
11-29-2006, 10:34 PM
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I don't know if it's already been stated in this thread, but there's a single, simple reason why the US gets stuck with the sunroof while the ROW doesn't. Model differentiation.
Look, PAG quickly figgered out that in addition to the inability to offer the roll bar and seats, they got fooked on lexan by the DOT. Leaving them with a VERY weak RS package. A widebody, choice (ahem) colors, and cosmetic bits.
How else to draw a bigger line b/t the two cars?
Put a heavy hole in the roof the GT3 and market it as a 'streetable' GT3. Have you guys noticed how hard the car has been marketed as a street car?
In the real world does it matter? No, but posterity (resale) will speak loudly on the issue nevertheless. IMO.
Look, PAG quickly figgered out that in addition to the inability to offer the roll bar and seats, they got fooked on lexan by the DOT. Leaving them with a VERY weak RS package. A widebody, choice (ahem) colors, and cosmetic bits.
How else to draw a bigger line b/t the two cars?
Put a heavy hole in the roof the GT3 and market it as a 'streetable' GT3. Have you guys noticed how hard the car has been marketed as a street car?
In the real world does it matter? No, but posterity (resale) will speak loudly on the issue nevertheless. IMO.
11-29-2006, 11:01 PM
#52
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Frayed - I am curious. Why do you disregard Porsche's official stance? It was about 18 months ago when PAG announced that all 997's would have a sun roof because they refused to undergo crash tests simply because they provided a more rigid roof structure. Sounds like they objected "on principle".
The RS has no sun roof because so many of us protested AND Porsche got a waiver due to the very limited number of cars which will be imported. This is what PCNA says to their dealers. I see no reason to doubt them.
I drove a new GT3 thanks to a DE student who got one of the first ones about a month ago. I am very impressed. Sun roof or not, it is one helluva car.
I think we are a lot better off now. Roll the clock back 5 years and we got no GT3 at all. Our pals in Europe had all the nice toys. Who didn't want a 993 Club Sport with the 3.8? I coveted that car and was annoyed that we never got them here. Sun-roof or not, a 997 GT3 is a lot better than No GT3 at all.
As to roll cages, lexan windows and the proper seats, thank our law makers for that. They can't be certified here. Ferrari got way with a lexan backlight on the Stradale only because the real rear window right behind the passenger compartment is made of ... glass. Technically the lexan bit is an engine cover. I'm confident that PAG would send us the euro spec cars if the law allowed. It isn't their fault.
Regards,
The RS has no sun roof because so many of us protested AND Porsche got a waiver due to the very limited number of cars which will be imported. This is what PCNA says to their dealers. I see no reason to doubt them.
I drove a new GT3 thanks to a DE student who got one of the first ones about a month ago. I am very impressed. Sun roof or not, it is one helluva car.
I think we are a lot better off now. Roll the clock back 5 years and we got no GT3 at all. Our pals in Europe had all the nice toys. Who didn't want a 993 Club Sport with the 3.8? I coveted that car and was annoyed that we never got them here. Sun-roof or not, a 997 GT3 is a lot better than No GT3 at all.
As to roll cages, lexan windows and the proper seats, thank our law makers for that. They can't be certified here. Ferrari got way with a lexan backlight on the Stradale only because the real rear window right behind the passenger compartment is made of ... glass. Technically the lexan bit is an engine cover. I'm confident that PAG would send us the euro spec cars if the law allowed. It isn't their fault.
Regards,
11-29-2006, 11:55 PM
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All you sunroof debaters are driving me nuts.
Here it is in a nut shell. If you are going to own a GT3 and drive it on the street, who cares about the sunroof!!!! On a sunny day it's nice to look at the bright blue sky as the cool breeze rolls accross your forehead, the sound is all the better with the roof open.when you pass another Porsche you can give the thumbs up out the sunroof. Or you can just keep it closed!!! Who cares!!! It is what it is.
For you track junkies that really can't live with a sunroof, strep up. Get a cup car. I wizz around those track prepped GT3's like they are standing still, they look like boat anchers in the tight turns, and that is in my 993 Cup, I can't imagine the difference in a 996 Cup???? . If you are that TRACK CRAZY??? that the hole in the roof is going to change the drivabiltiy of the car, Think of all the other things you are giving up??? There is no comparison between a Factory Porsche Race Car and a GT3. Sure it is a great car....... but not a race car.
Here is an Idea??? If you want a street car buy a street car. A stock 997S Cab. with the top down goes plenty fast for the street. It looks cool, it sounds cool and you will get way more attention from the broads driving a Cab. than a GT3.
If you want a track car buy a Cup Car, you will have 10 times the fun and you will be "THE MAN" at the track, every one will be pissed because you are lapping them in there track prepped street cars.
The feel of a cup car is second to none.
In the end you will be $$$$ ahead, Your cup car will hold it's value and you won't be voiding you warrantee tracking your street car.
Problem Solved...... It is settled. .... The sunroof is o.k., sure it sucks but get over it.
( Despite everything Ijust said I still think the sunroof sucks. I am just tired of thinking about it. I will just keep mine closed. 997 GT3 in the states and scheduled for delivery this week!!!!!)
Joe
Here it is in a nut shell. If you are going to own a GT3 and drive it on the street, who cares about the sunroof!!!! On a sunny day it's nice to look at the bright blue sky as the cool breeze rolls accross your forehead, the sound is all the better with the roof open.when you pass another Porsche you can give the thumbs up out the sunroof. Or you can just keep it closed!!! Who cares!!! It is what it is.
For you track junkies that really can't live with a sunroof, strep up. Get a cup car. I wizz around those track prepped GT3's like they are standing still, they look like boat anchers in the tight turns, and that is in my 993 Cup, I can't imagine the difference in a 996 Cup???? . If you are that TRACK CRAZY??? that the hole in the roof is going to change the drivabiltiy of the car, Think of all the other things you are giving up??? There is no comparison between a Factory Porsche Race Car and a GT3. Sure it is a great car....... but not a race car.
Here is an Idea??? If you want a street car buy a street car. A stock 997S Cab. with the top down goes plenty fast for the street. It looks cool, it sounds cool and you will get way more attention from the broads driving a Cab. than a GT3.
If you want a track car buy a Cup Car, you will have 10 times the fun and you will be "THE MAN" at the track, every one will be pissed because you are lapping them in there track prepped street cars.
The feel of a cup car is second to none.
In the end you will be $$$$ ahead, Your cup car will hold it's value and you won't be voiding you warrantee tracking your street car.
Problem Solved...... It is settled. .... The sunroof is o.k., sure it sucks but get over it.
( Despite everything Ijust said I still think the sunroof sucks. I am just tired of thinking about it. I will just keep mine closed. 997 GT3 in the states and scheduled for delivery this week!!!!!)
Joe
11-30-2006, 12:02 AM
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Colm, I don't know how streetable the new gt3 is since I've never even seen one. But, the rags say it is. On the other hand, some early euro owners say it's less compliant on the street than the 997 -20 package even in regular mode. That doesn't jive with what excellence said, that it has sport sedan-rivaling initial bump compliance.
Bob, I too believe the PAG would send us the ROW RS car if the law allowed it. But, reality is that they had to send an RS America of sorts, leaving the regular GT3 in a difficult marketing position. I have major difficulty believing that a bunch of bitching from rennlist members moved PAG to send no hole RS cars but NOT no hole GT3 cars. What's the limit on the low production waiver? If it lines up with the RS allocation, then perhaps; otherwise I don't buy it.
I've worked in large corporate for a lot of my career. To believe that PAG had objected to crash testing 'on principle' to me is absurd. PAG is after your money just like any other corporate entity.
Now, both GT3 models are tainted.
Don't get me wrong though. I may still buy one b/c we have no other choice, and b/c in reality most everyone reading this thread (including me) could not even remotely detect the difference b/t the performance of a hole/nohole car, but that doesn't change reality that we got boned.
Bob, I too believe the PAG would send us the ROW RS car if the law allowed it. But, reality is that they had to send an RS America of sorts, leaving the regular GT3 in a difficult marketing position. I have major difficulty believing that a bunch of bitching from rennlist members moved PAG to send no hole RS cars but NOT no hole GT3 cars. What's the limit on the low production waiver? If it lines up with the RS allocation, then perhaps; otherwise I don't buy it.
I've worked in large corporate for a lot of my career. To believe that PAG had objected to crash testing 'on principle' to me is absurd. PAG is after your money just like any other corporate entity.
Now, both GT3 models are tainted.
Don't get me wrong though. I may still buy one b/c we have no other choice, and b/c in reality most everyone reading this thread (including me) could not even remotely detect the difference b/t the performance of a hole/nohole car, but that doesn't change reality that we got boned.
11-30-2006, 12:05 AM
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Honestly I am glad my new GT-3 has a sun roof, having given up my 993-tt for it, that is one of the things I would have missed.
This is not going to be a race car(already have that)but a duel purpose veichle, street and DE...that makes it best of both worlds.
This is not going to be a race car(already have that)but a duel purpose veichle, street and DE...that makes it best of both worlds.
11-30-2006, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by frayed
Colm, I don't know how streetable the new gt3 is since I've never even seen one. But, the rags say it is. On the other hand, some early euro owners say it's less compliant on the street than the 997 -20 package even in regular mode. That doesn't jive with what excellence said, that it has sport sedan-rivaling initial bump compliance.
Bob, I too believe the PAG would send us the ROW RS car if the law allowed it. But, reality is that they had to send an RS America of sorts, leaving the regular GT3 in a difficult marketing position. I have major difficulty believing that a bunch of bitching from rennlist members moved PAG to send no hole RS cars but NOT no hole GT3 cars. What's the limit on the low production waiver? If it lines up with the RS allocation, then perhaps; otherwise I don't buy it.
I've worked in large corporate for a lot of my career. To believe that PAG had objected to crash testing 'on principle' to me is absurd. PAG is after your money just like any other corporate entity.
Now, both GT3 models are tainted.
Don't get me wrong though. I may still buy one b/c we have no other choice, and b/c in reality most everyone reading this thread (including me) could not even remotely detect the difference b/t the performance of a hole/nohole car, but that doesn't change reality that we got boned.
Bob, I too believe the PAG would send us the ROW RS car if the law allowed it. But, reality is that they had to send an RS America of sorts, leaving the regular GT3 in a difficult marketing position. I have major difficulty believing that a bunch of bitching from rennlist members moved PAG to send no hole RS cars but NOT no hole GT3 cars. What's the limit on the low production waiver? If it lines up with the RS allocation, then perhaps; otherwise I don't buy it.
I've worked in large corporate for a lot of my career. To believe that PAG had objected to crash testing 'on principle' to me is absurd. PAG is after your money just like any other corporate entity.
Now, both GT3 models are tainted.
Don't get me wrong though. I may still buy one b/c we have no other choice, and b/c in reality most everyone reading this thread (including me) could not even remotely detect the difference b/t the performance of a hole/nohole car, but that doesn't change reality that we got boned.
Having followed your various car experiments over the recent months, culminating in a 360. I think when you your hands on the new GT3 for an "experimental" drive you will drink the coolaid.
After you try it, feel free to tell me I was was way wrong....or right!
11-30-2006, 12:42 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by RS 197
All you sunroof debaters are driving me nuts.
Here it is in a nut shell. If you are going to own a GT3 and drive it on the street, who cares about the sunroof!!!! On a sunny day it's nice to look at the bright blue sky as the cool breeze rolls accross your forehead, the sound is all the better with the roof open.when you pass another Porsche you can give the thumbs up out the sunroof. Or you can just keep it closed!!! Who cares!!! It is what it is.
For you track junkies that really can't live with a sunroof, strep up. Get a cup car. I wizz around those track prepped GT3's like they are standing still, they look like boat anchers in the tight turns, and that is in my 993 Cup, I can't imagine the difference in a 996 Cup???? . If you are that TRACK CRAZY??? that the hole in the roof is going to change the drivabiltiy of the car, Think of all the other things you are giving up??? There is no comparison between a Factory Porsche Race Car and a GT3. Sure it is a great car....... but not a race car.
Here is an Idea??? If you want a street car buy a street car. A stock 997S Cab. with the top down goes plenty fast for the street. It looks cool, it sounds cool and you will get way more attention from the broads driving a Cab. than a GT3.
If you want a track car buy a Cup Car, you will have 10 times the fun and you will be "THE MAN" at the track, every one will be pissed because you are lapping them in there track prepped street cars.
The feel of a cup car is second to none.
In the end you will be $$$$ ahead, Your cup car will hold it's value and you won't be voiding you warrantee tracking your street car.
Problem Solved...... It is settled. .... The sunroof is o.k., sure it sucks but get over it.
( Despite everything Ijust said I still think the sunroof sucks. I am just tired of thinking about it. I will just keep mine closed. 997 GT3 in the states and scheduled for delivery this week!!!!!)
Joe
Here it is in a nut shell. If you are going to own a GT3 and drive it on the street, who cares about the sunroof!!!! On a sunny day it's nice to look at the bright blue sky as the cool breeze rolls accross your forehead, the sound is all the better with the roof open.when you pass another Porsche you can give the thumbs up out the sunroof. Or you can just keep it closed!!! Who cares!!! It is what it is.
For you track junkies that really can't live with a sunroof, strep up. Get a cup car. I wizz around those track prepped GT3's like they are standing still, they look like boat anchers in the tight turns, and that is in my 993 Cup, I can't imagine the difference in a 996 Cup???? . If you are that TRACK CRAZY??? that the hole in the roof is going to change the drivabiltiy of the car, Think of all the other things you are giving up??? There is no comparison between a Factory Porsche Race Car and a GT3. Sure it is a great car....... but not a race car.
Here is an Idea??? If you want a street car buy a street car. A stock 997S Cab. with the top down goes plenty fast for the street. It looks cool, it sounds cool and you will get way more attention from the broads driving a Cab. than a GT3.
If you want a track car buy a Cup Car, you will have 10 times the fun and you will be "THE MAN" at the track, every one will be pissed because you are lapping them in there track prepped street cars.
The feel of a cup car is second to none.
In the end you will be $$$$ ahead, Your cup car will hold it's value and you won't be voiding you warrantee tracking your street car.
Problem Solved...... It is settled. .... The sunroof is o.k., sure it sucks but get over it.
( Despite everything Ijust said I still think the sunroof sucks. I am just tired of thinking about it. I will just keep mine closed. 997 GT3 in the states and scheduled for delivery this week!!!!!)
Joe
That being said I'd get an RS with NAV just because I'm a twisted wierdo...
11-30-2006, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Rouleau
It was about 18 months ago when PAG announced that all 997's would have a sun roof because they refused to undergo crash tests simply because they provided a more rigid roof structure.
Did Porsche ever actually say anything about crash testing in writing? I remember the letter stating the engineers made the determination about having the sunroof but don't remember them saying anything about the crash test.