Originally Posted by ChristyT

Questions:

1) what model? My price range is up to $70k, although I certainly don't need to spend that much. It is my understanding that there is a base model, a C2S, a C4S, and then a GTS? I see the differences in power: what is the difference on the road? Are any of the models destined to "hold value" more than others? I see that thrown around here quite often, especially when people are contemplating buying an "S" car vs the "Base", although looking at MSRP vs used prices, it doesn't seem to be the case. Most everything seems to be selling at around 50-55% of MSRP with, say, 30,000 miles.

Too many differences to discuss between all the models.
You really need to get out and test drive the different cars. Most people would say that the C2S is plenty enough to put a smile on your face while others care more about the wider hips and therefore go for the C4S. With your budget, you should have no issues getting into any of these models.

2) Assuming the above is true, that each model more or less costs the same in depreciation, which provides the most bang for the buck? Is the "S" worth $10k more than the "base"? The GTS worth $15k more than that? I just want a fun car, and have never had "badge envy". We ladies tend not to use engine size as a proxy for other measurements With that said, if a certain model is the "sweet spot" for daily drivability (useful power), then I would like to know.

The S is worth the extra $ for more HP, better brakes and stiffer suspension, but if you prefer a subtle ride and are trying to daily the car through a rough down town area, I would go for the softer base model.

3) mileage: a good friend of mine is dating a longtime Porsche mechanic who specializes on air-cooled cars. Speaking with him, he said "buy a one or 2 owner car that has been driven. Do not fall into that trap that lower mileage is always better. Not true on these cars. Find something that has a good 3,000-4,000 miles/year on the clock, and has been maintained. The decade-old cars that have 10,000 miles a year are not only more expensive, but will give you 5x the problems going forward. Everything is designed to be taken to operating temperatures regularly on these cars; the problem cars are the garage queens". This makes a lot of sense; is it still true for this generation? I want' the car to be reliable: it is going to see 15,000 miles a year.

This is true with the 911. I would question though,
if you are looking for a daily vehicle to put miles on, why not go for an older 997.1? The 997.2 has not reached its full depreciating potential and if you buy one now and put miles on it, you will lose a lot of money.

4) some cars have "sport seats" with big bolsters. Coming out of an M3 with side adaptive bolsters, is this a "must have"? Or are the stock 997 seats as good as the M3 seats? I don't see many cars with that option.

Sport Seats are really good but after a long commute, the standard seats are more comfortable.

5) best time of year to buy is later in the year, I presume? Are 911's sold year round, or more of a summertime car? People daily drive M3's, but it always seemed that they were cheaper in the fall and winter.

The same is true for 911s

Originally Posted by ChristyT

Questions:

1) what model? My price range is up to $70k, although I certainly don't need to spend that much. It is my understanding that there is a base model, a C2S, a C4S, and then a GTS? I see the differences in power: what is the difference on the road? Are any of the models destined to "hold value" more than others? I see that thrown around here quite often, especially when people are contemplating buying an "S" car vs the "Base", although looking at MSRP vs used prices, it doesn't seem to be the case. Most everything seems to be selling at around 50-55% of MSRP with, say, 30,000 miles.

You should most definitely look into a 997.2 S model. I might also recommend the 2S RWD rather than the 4S AWD as it will be a lighter and more nimble driving experience. The engine on the 997.2s are much more reliable and have more power than the previous generations, and other than GT cars it is what myself (any many others) would call the last of the best driver's car 911s. A lot of this has to do with the driver's connection of the hydraulic steering that you lose in the 991 for electric steering, and as you mentioned it feels smaller and more engaging. If you can pick up a GTS in your price range, they are rather rare so will hold value better than any S, and along with various other tweaks come with an X51 powerkit (revised top end and intake design) for a nice little bump on performance. The C4S are more rare than a C2S so would likely hold better value from that stand point

2) Assuming the above is true, that each model more or less costs the same in depreciation, which provides the most bang for the buck? Is the "S" worth $10k more than the "base"? The GTS worth $15k more than that? I just want a fun car, and have never had "badge envy". We ladies tend not to use engine size as a proxy for other measurements With that said, if a certain model is the "sweet spot" for daily drivability (useful power), then I would like to know.

Yes the S is worth more than the Base, the performance and overall experience of the larger engine is quite impressive. Personally I don't believe a GTS is worth the extra $15k over a nicely optioned S model. You can take that extra $15k, put it into the car and put it a nice bit beyond that of a GTS in regards to handling and performance.

3) mileage: a good friend of mine is dating a longtime Porsche mechanic who specializes on air-cooled cars. Speaking with him, he said "buy a one or 2 owner car that has been driven. Do not fall into that trap that lower mileage is always better. Not true on these cars. Find something that has a good 3,000-4,000 miles/year on the clock, and has been maintained. The decade-old cars that have 10,000 miles a year are not only more expensive, but will give you 5x the problems going forward. Everything is designed to be taken to operating temperatures regularly on these cars; the problem cars are the garage queens". This makes a lot of sense; is it still true for this generation? I want' the car to be reliable: it is going to see 15,000 miles a year.

This is actually quite accurate, but much more prevalent on the earlier 996/997.1 cars that had IMS bearing and bore scoring issues. The 997.2S models are night and day better in regards to reliability, so lower mileage shouldn't scare you off like it would on the earlier water-cooled 911s.


4) some cars have "sport seats" with big bolsters. Coming out of an M3 with side adaptive bolsters, is this a "must have"? Or are the stock 997 seats as good as the M3 seats? I don't see many cars with that option.

Hard to compare that one as I haven't gone back to back in the M3 seats and a 997. However, I've always found the 911 seats to be quite impressive regardless of model, albeit the sport seats are more up my alley as i'm always after more support.

5) best time of year to buy is later in the year, I presume? Are 911's sold year round, or more of a summertime car? People daily drive M3's, but it always seemed that they were cheaper in the fall and winter.

Anything else I should know? I plan on getting a good PPI, DME report, all of that. I also have looked at exhaust options. My M3 had an Akrapovic! I hope to recreate that sound on this car.


All depends on the area in the country. You can find them year round in CA, FL, TX, etc. technically you can find them year round anywhere, but the car sales market is what it is and you can't quite sway the tendency of the sales market to fluctuate on sports cars during the driving season versus winter months.

Definitely get a PPI done by a local, reputable Porsche Specialist, and have them check the DME for overrevs. As for exhaust, I've got you covered with whatever you may end up with haha. If you pick up an S with the factory PSE (valved Porsche Sports Exhaust), that's a bonus as they sound superb with just a center muffler delete and headers, and offer the ability for maintain a mild to wild exhaust note at the push of a button.

Originally Posted by captainbaker

Doug is historically correct. Turbos have consistently been relatively reliable 911's.

A decent Turbo 2009+ will run you at least $80K.

The 'S' is worth it because of more HP, suspension, brakes. Kind of how you wanted the M3 over the base 3 series to make up for ....'other measurements'.

A $70k budget will get you a nice C4S (widebody, with more HP, bigger brakes , suspension etc.) with money left over.

Originally Posted by frankyluis23

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Originally Posted by ChristyT

That's my next question: C2S vs C4S. 1.5 inches wider on the C4s? Heavier though and not as fun to drive? I start looking for a full leather C4S, manual, adaptive sport seats, LSD, Sport Chrono in a good color: I may be looking for awhile! How important are sport seats and LSD for a daily driver? I have learned never to let the perfect be the enemy of the very good, and those 2 items are tough to find in many cars. I also see more C2S models for sale than C4S. I do like the wider stance of the 4, but I am not 100% sure that is a deal breaker.

Originally Posted by ChristyT

That's my next question: C2S vs C4S. 1.5 inches wider on the C4s? Heavier though and not as fun to drive? I start looking for a full leather C4S, manual, adaptive sport seats, LSD, Sport Chrono in a good color: I may be looking for awhile! How important are sport seats and LSD for a daily driver? I have learned never to let the perfect be the enemy of the very good, and those 2 items are tough to find in many cars. I also see more C2S models for sale than C4S. I do like the wider stance of the 4, but I am not 100% sure that is a deal breaker.

As far as the M3 comparison, that isn't entirely correct. I owned a 335is prior to the M3 (my 4th BMW) The 335is was almost as quick as the M3: power and torque were more potent as they came on at much lower RPM; if I remember correctly, the tuned N54 engine for real world usability is every bit as fast as the S65.

What made the M3 special upon upgrading was the rest of the car: the suspension, the subframe, axles; everything else that made the M3 more than simply a 335i with a larger engine. If you doubt this: go drive a 1M and a 135i back to back. Not much of a difference in the engine, but damn, having the M3 parts installed makes all the difference in the world.

It is my understanding that with the 911, the "base" model is basically the Porsche equivalent of an M3 out of the box. There are no shortcuts, and the major components aside from engine are all shared with any Carrera variant. Spend more, and it is like taking an M3 and adding more power, an LSD, better brakes and whatnot, which is something BMW doesn't really offer in the same manner (the Comp pkg really doesn't compare). Having driven a couple of "base" 911's, I can tell you there is nothing basic about them; they already beat an M3 out of the box in terms of handling, steering feel, chassis stiffness.