raidersfan

Hi all,

I found a decent price on a very clean one owner, manual, silver and black (a must have!) 2010 C4. Deposit is on the car. I can't really drive it before committing to buy it, as it will be a fly-in, 8 hour drive home type of deal.

Reading reviews, it seems that some say the C2/C4 are not enough car, and that a C2S is the minimum car needed. Others disagree. I will be DD'ing the car, and either RWD or AWD will be fine.

My last car was a (silver) E92 M3. It was a little sluggish at low RPM, not much torque, but really fine as a DD, plenty of power to send anyone to jail! The 3.6L looks to make less power and similar torque, but the car should be several hundred pounds lighter (maybe 3350 for the 4 6MT?). M3 was 3700. Having driven the new F82 M4, I can say it is a lot more car, almost too much power. My personal philosophy sometimes leans toward "less is more", based on other hobbies. For example, I own about 7 bicycles and often log 10k a year, but the one that is ridden with the most frequency is my fixed gear. Just hop on the saddle, click in the pedals, and ride off. No derailleur to tune, and a bit track chain and cog that never require replacement. Just pedal as fast as the wheels are moving.

Based on those numbers, and assuming 0-60 times are the same (mid 4's), I would assume the C4 would be more than adequate as a DD, no?

A big part of me wants to stick with the C2/C4 due to the difference in price. I can afford a $55k car, but a $43k base model is a lot less up front, and buying more car than I can realistically enjoy on public roads makes little sense. Then again, I don't want to make a mistake. If I am spending $55k, then I might as well look at $65+ for a GTS, right? Even then, I doubt the GTS is 50% better than a base.

Looking at resale prices, depreciation seems to be similar % of MSRP on both models. 47-50% of MSRP for around 25-35k miles. So not much $ to be saved really on either.

Anyone want to chime in?

Racetwin2

I think at least you want the S so you get PASM (variable sports suspension). You also get the extra Power and some other bits.

There are lots of former and current M3 guys here who will give you much more details than me though.

GTS is very nice but it's hard to find and I was having a hard time to find one reasonably priced. I don't 65 will be enough. At least for a low mileage 2010.

But let the M3 guys chime in.....

raidersfan

PASM won't be necessary: I have a set of 2nd-hand KW V3's I can install. A friend recently moved on from his 997 and is letting me have them. I agree though, the stock suspension sits a bit tall.

jdgamble

I had an E90 M3 a while back. I now have a base 997.2 Carrera. I would say they are pretty equivalent in terms of speed. The Porsche feels more agile though, and with SC, more responsive. If anything, it feels quicker at low rpm. The M3 really didn't wake up until over 4000 rpm. I felt like I had to tach it out to really feel much sensation of speed, and then I was waking up the neighborhood. So I would think you would be fine with the base engine.

raidersfan

OK, thanks. I had to run the S65 above 5k to get it to sing, which made it frustrating around town. Once on open road, it was awesome; definitely built for racing. Power was fine up top, I just wanted a bit more down low. Thanks for the input!

911-997

If you are coming from e90 M3, then you will be disappointed from C2/C4. You will need at least C2S to be satisfied with power level. Just my 0.02 cents

Redhot2474

Dont rush this , take your time and buy your perfect car, it's out there. There are plenty of 997 out there, why take huge risk of buying something you never drove? "Enough car" is highly subjective , personally I would get an S...

JimHJr

See if you can find one closer, doesn't necessarily have to be the right car for you but something you can drive to get an idea if you'd be happy with it. Has to be a Pcar dealer within an hour or so from you.

I drove a 997 C2 and it felt fairly torquey, may be due to having a 3.6 as the 3.4 seemed a bit lacking. I could've lived with it and I was coming from a big American V8.

Like others have said don't jump into anything without driving it first. Make sure to get a PPI also.

dgjks6

Ok. I'll chime in as the owner as the insecure owner of a carrera 4 cab. These arguments baffle me. If it was about absolute power - then the only 911 is the lastest turbo S.

So it's not about absolute power. It's about the subjective feeling of power. My previous car was 99 carrera 4. And now I have a 2009 carrera 4. Both cabs. And in neither car could I even come close to touching the limits. This is of course on a road. If you are concerned about power just always leave it above 4K. It sounds the best there anyway.

I have heard in the non 4's it's a different story though I haven't ever owned one. I read (I know is hearsay) that you can have more fun in an S getting the back end loose. But I've taken ramps in both of mine and Supra legal speeds and never even a twitch.

So subjectively as a DD the base is more than enough. And since this is a reasonable sub forum on rennlist I assume you know what subjective is. (Ok, that's a dig at other sub forums here who seem to think that subjective is objective and that their opinion is fact)

BTW - if you get a good deal you are looking at cars that you will drive almost for free. Most of the depreciation has already occurred.

Petza914

If you're planning to use your friends KWs make sure they came off the same model of 997. Top mounts, dampening rates and other things are different between the RWD and AWD models - IE, if he had them on a C2S and you buy a C4 or C4S they likely won't fit.
Also, depending on where the car is, a member here may be willing to take an initial look for you. Don't buy one sight unseen without a PPI.

Jlewis1436

As others have stated, power is subjective for sure. As a DD, it matters, but ultimately it's the feeling the car delivers and not so much the HP. I drive my C2S as a weekend, fun, toy car. It's my first Porsche and I LOVE it!

My last "toy" was a 97 Viper GTS, all motor almost 700HP and 800TQ. No traction control, no ABS, no computers, just 3 pedals and knowing how to drive it. It was a mid 10 second 1/4 mile car that was a equally at home on the road course. It was all the power most could want.

Why do I say this??? I went from that crazed beast to a car with half the HP. I don't miss it at all! I always wanted one, had one and now can't imagine not driving my 997!

Now would say, get an S if going 997. I looked at 996TT but the interior, styling and almost zero (minimal) difference in performance.

I really wanted a 997T but just didn't work out for me $ wise for how often I drive mine. If I DD the car, I would have only bought a turbo.

There are PLENTY of 997s out there. Drive a 997.1 non S, S, S4 and then a 997.2.

I think you will find each has a different feel when you push them. If you just granny shift it and putter along, it won't matter at all.

Type_LT

I've never owned an E92 but have had a chance to drive one hard for a few hundred miles.

I think if you want to feel some drastic chance, of course you'd have to go turbo.

What I think is different between the E92 and 997.2 is gearing, assuming you're going manual. This might be the only real difference since all the cars are close on torque and power deliver through the rev range.

Para82

I alternate my driving between a 526hp GT350 and a 355hp 997S - I don't ever feel like my 911 is under-powered, for me everything feels just right in the 911.

jdgamble

Hey I want to clarify my answer slightly... I have a C2, not C4. There is a bit of a weight diff between the two. But the reality is that the 3.6 makes 288 lb-ft of torque, and the E9x makes 295. Seat of the pants, as well as instrumented testing, the C2 and M3 are very close.

But to echo several posters, I think you should drive one before buying.

911-997

+1 on this