Car Just Experienced IMS Failure
03-19-2017, 09:34 AM
#61
Race Car
wow. That's good to know. Like the bore scoring issue, I kind of always wonder about the cars that fail. In other words, how many of them went by the recommended oil intervals and recommended oil and changed the filter every time. There are relatively few of these failures, but I am sure we all know people that never or hardly ever change their oil, and when they do they just dump anything they see on the shelf in the car.
Which then I wonder, how many of the failures are in cars where people change the oil every 5k, use good filters, proper warming up techniques and proper oil? I am sure there are a few (this thread may be an example of one) but I kind of bet that the majority of the failures are neglected cars (yes, even Porsche owners).
Which then I wonder, how many of the failures are in cars where people change the oil every 5k, use good filters, proper warming up techniques and proper oil? I am sure there are a few (this thread may be an example of one) but I kind of bet that the majority of the failures are neglected cars (yes, even Porsche owners).
03-19-2017, 09:37 AM
#62
Race Car
I agree with you. Today, I spoke with the shop foreman of a local dealer and he said that in 16 years of working on Porsche, he had only seeing less than a handful of IMS failures. All of the failures were from cars manufactured from 2002 to very early 2005 productions. Basically, the 996 engines. Don't worry and ride on!
03-19-2017, 01:01 PM
#63
I lost the engine in my 2002 996 to IMS failure. I sold the car as a roller to Reenlist member Ahsai. He proceeded to do a complete rebuild of the engine. The thread starts at
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...wn-engine.html
and has over 900 posts to it as Ahsai has fully detailed the rebuild. If you are thinking of doing a rebuild, I highly recommend reading the thread.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...wn-engine.html
and has over 900 posts to it as Ahsai has fully detailed the rebuild. If you are thinking of doing a rebuild, I highly recommend reading the thread.
03-23-2017, 03:45 AM
#64
Instructor
My 997.1 (11/2004 build) had an IMS failure at 68k miles in 3/2009. Out of warranty by time and miles. I wrangled with the dealer and PCNA for 2 months, and they finally agreed to cover 75% of the cost of a new crate motor and installation. After talking to Raby and LN, it appears the smaller IMS bearing is good for about 50k miles and anything after that is good fortune. The LN IMS Solution is rated for 75k miles. I'm treating the IMS as a maintenance item now, and will replace it with the LN upgrade soon. $2500 for an IMS bearing every 75k miles, or $25k for a new motor. Easy choice.
I like the 997.1 with its hydraulic power steering and 6sp transmission - it feels a bit more raw than the 997.2. And mine is a DD (121k miles to date), I auto-cross occasionally, and it's basically a mini-van filled with kid food, mud, toys, and gear. Beats a real mini-van, and the kids like it (they were raised in it from birth and think the engine noise, stiff suspension, and occasional hard cornering are normal). Yes, I haul kids in my car 2-3x per day, 5 days a week. The Carrera is very usable as a daily family car with up to 1-hour commutes with kids. Oh, and my 997.1 was cheaper to operate and maintain than our Audi Allroad and VW Jetta.
Others have said it in this post and elsewhere in the 997 forum, and I'll repeat: oil change intervals are super important; 0W40 is too thin - use 5W40 (I really like the Motul 8100 and have my doubts about MobilOne); cut open the filter and look for metal each oil change, and use a magnetic drain plug and check it; keep the revs under 4k until the engine oil is fully up to temp (not just the water temp!).
Here's my IMS failure complete with pics (I first thought it was a seized scavenging pump):
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...p-failure.html
I like the 997.1 with its hydraulic power steering and 6sp transmission - it feels a bit more raw than the 997.2. And mine is a DD (121k miles to date), I auto-cross occasionally, and it's basically a mini-van filled with kid food, mud, toys, and gear. Beats a real mini-van, and the kids like it (they were raised in it from birth and think the engine noise, stiff suspension, and occasional hard cornering are normal). Yes, I haul kids in my car 2-3x per day, 5 days a week. The Carrera is very usable as a daily family car with up to 1-hour commutes with kids. Oh, and my 997.1 was cheaper to operate and maintain than our Audi Allroad and VW Jetta.
Others have said it in this post and elsewhere in the 997 forum, and I'll repeat: oil change intervals are super important; 0W40 is too thin - use 5W40 (I really like the Motul 8100 and have my doubts about MobilOne); cut open the filter and look for metal each oil change, and use a magnetic drain plug and check it; keep the revs under 4k until the engine oil is fully up to temp (not just the water temp!).
Here's my IMS failure complete with pics (I first thought it was a seized scavenging pump):
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...p-failure.html
03-23-2017, 04:53 AM
#65
oil change intervals are super important; 0W40 is too thin - use 5W40 (I really like the Motul 8100 and have my doubts about MobilOne); cut open the filter and look for metal each oil change, and use a magnetic drain plug and check it; keep the revs under 4k until the engine oil is fully up to temp (not just the water temp!).
The 0W-40 has the advantage of being a bit closer to the ideal viscosity even when the engine is cold. Or am I mistaken?
03-23-2017, 04:58 AM
#66
Instructor
The 5W40 offers better engine protection at lower temp while the engine is warming up because of the thicker film.
03-23-2017, 05:17 AM
#67
03-23-2017, 08:18 AM
#69
Rennlist Member
Do some more homework...the IMS Retrofit has the rating of 75k miles. The Solution is a separate, very different product.
http://theimssolution.com
http://theimssolution.com
03-23-2017, 01:23 PM
#70
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Zuffenhausen, Georgia
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Original owner - regularly maintained - Never tracked, never abused - driven regularly - only 66K miles and IMS catastrophic failure - before IMS failure, owner asked about having it changed out, but was discourage by the Porsche mechanic, now the mechanics admit the IMS should have been changed. Duhh!
Such a horrible 911 story. I hope the OP bounces back in time and finds way back into another Porsche .... in a more reliable 911 next time.
Such a horrible 911 story. I hope the OP bounces back in time and finds way back into another Porsche .... in a more reliable 911 next time.
03-23-2017, 01:59 PM
#71
Scoring
No experience yet with scoring on 997.1, but I do on V8 Cayennes. 0 for 2 and one had less than 70K. I have pictures of the cylinders. Terrible engineering. That's why I now have a V6. For the 997, I am religious about changing oil and use LN magnetic plug and spin on filter magnet. My Ecliptech shift light comes on at 3K rpms, helpful until oil is hot.
03-23-2017, 03:50 PM
#72
Rennlist Member
Isn't the IMS solution by LN pretty much a permanent solution since there are no bearings? That's the way I understand it, but maybe we are talking different products.
My 997.1 (11/2004 build) had an IMS failure at 68k miles in 3/2009. Out of warranty by time and miles. I wrangled with the dealer and PCNA for 2 months, and they finally agreed to cover 75% of the cost of a new crate motor and installation. After talking to Raby and LN, it appears the smaller IMS bearing is good for about 50k miles and anything after that is good fortune. The LN IMS Solution is rated for 75k miles. I'm treating the IMS as a maintenance item now, and will replace it with the LN upgrade soon. $2500 for an IMS bearing every 75k miles, or $25k for a new motor. Easy choice.
I like the 997.1 with its hydraulic power steering and 6sp transmission - it feels a bit more raw than the 997.2. And mine is a DD (121k miles to date), I auto-cross occasionally, and it's basically a mini-van filled with kid food, mud, toys, and gear. Beats a real mini-van, and the kids like it (they were raised in it from birth and think the engine noise, stiff suspension, and occasional hard cornering are normal). Yes, I haul kids in my car 2-3x per day, 5 days a week. The Carrera is very usable as a daily family car with up to 1-hour commutes with kids. Oh, and my 997.1 was cheaper to operate and maintain than our Audi Allroad and VW Jetta.
Others have said it in this post and elsewhere in the 997 forum, and I'll repeat: oil change intervals are super important; 0W40 is too thin - use 5W40 (I really like the Motul 8100 and have my doubts about MobilOne); cut open the filter and look for metal each oil change, and use a magnetic drain plug and check it; keep the revs under 4k until the engine oil is fully up to temp (not just the water temp!).
Here's my IMS failure complete with pics (I first thought it was a seized scavenging pump):
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...p-failure.html
I like the 997.1 with its hydraulic power steering and 6sp transmission - it feels a bit more raw than the 997.2. And mine is a DD (121k miles to date), I auto-cross occasionally, and it's basically a mini-van filled with kid food, mud, toys, and gear. Beats a real mini-van, and the kids like it (they were raised in it from birth and think the engine noise, stiff suspension, and occasional hard cornering are normal). Yes, I haul kids in my car 2-3x per day, 5 days a week. The Carrera is very usable as a daily family car with up to 1-hour commutes with kids. Oh, and my 997.1 was cheaper to operate and maintain than our Audi Allroad and VW Jetta.
Others have said it in this post and elsewhere in the 997 forum, and I'll repeat: oil change intervals are super important; 0W40 is too thin - use 5W40 (I really like the Motul 8100 and have my doubts about MobilOne); cut open the filter and look for metal each oil change, and use a magnetic drain plug and check it; keep the revs under 4k until the engine oil is fully up to temp (not just the water temp!).
Here's my IMS failure complete with pics (I first thought it was a seized scavenging pump):
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...p-failure.html
03-23-2017, 04:58 PM
#73
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Zuffenhausen, Georgia
Posts: 5,334
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The IMS solution doesn't use *ball* bearings. Instead, it uses plain bearings and of course, is force fed oil.
03-23-2017, 05:38 PM
#74
IMS Solution = IMSS = plain bearing = life of the engine and doesn't require replacement
IMS solution = a mis-used term to describe An IMS retrofit bearing, either roller or ball bearing
IMS solution = a mis-used term to describe An IMS retrofit bearing, either roller or ball bearing
03-23-2017, 06:35 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
