ktrainman

I agree you must go 6MT. Life is too short to not drive a manual 911. But you will be much slower than your PDK car, especially on the track.

Having said that consider Turo in your area, maybe a 911 6mt you can rent.
If not go for a 997.2 C4S manual with SPASM. If I recall correctly the suspension is the same as your GTS.

GTS Sully

That's the double car garage which we keep pretty clean. Two cars and shoes on a rack. The single car garage, well, it's stuffed with everything else including my daily driver.

gasongasoff

Im pretty sure the suspension stiffness and comfort is basically the same between a gts and c4 or c4s. Either would be a downgrade in terms of engine power. And losing the pdk may be more "involving," but you'll also take a performance hit there too. A GTS 997 will probably hold its value better than a nongts, given what porsche has done to the 991's.

If your primary reason for wanting to trade is ride comfort, not only would that not be addressed, but youll be moving into a lower performing vehicle.

You want to consider modifying your current suspension. Have you looked into the TPC DSC? Its a plug and play replacement for your PASM control module. You can then change your dampener rates and turn your car into anything from a Camry to a go cart.

bruinmd

Hmmmm...... I think you may very well be right about the suspension differences-- or rather, lack there of-- between the C4/C4S and the GTS. You've echoed what a knowledgable porsche guy told me almost verbatim.
I haven't looked into an after market TPC DSC, no. My car is CPO'd through 12/2017, so I'm not sure if that will mess with the CPO, but it sounds pretty intriguing

Tcc1999

Not so fast. I am only going to repeat what I have read and am not offering any opinion of my own. Excellence reviewed the 997 GTS and reported that, in their words, the handling and suspension was "crisper" and more fine tuned than compared to the S or 4S model. They brought this observation up with August Achleitner who directs the Carrera line at PAG and he agreed, further stating that that was the intent. The difference is a hollow front anti-sway bar that is sized slightly different. I suspect that they (PAG) maybe tweaked one or two other settings as well. So, this is from Excellence and PAG itself. (I'd place more faith in their observations than a salesman.)

Now, there is a "but" because there is always a "but". Excellence found, and PAG also confirmed, that the "crispness" was lost when Sports PASM was optioned with the GTS. It was a carry over from the S/4S line and it was never part of the "intention" of the GTS package (this per August Achleitner). So, the suspension and handling, in some way, reverted more to the style of S/4S when you added Sports PASM.

I'm just the messenger here - and I've written this before. I personally probably could not tell the difference between the GTS and S/4S suspension and handling. If I can find the link I'll add it later.

bruinmd

Interesting..... well, the GTS is optioned out with PASM as you know (love the color of your GTS btw).

I can't imagine the C4 or 4S is going to handle quite like the GTS, and I also have to believe the suspension has to be at least a little harsher on rough roads with the GTS c/w with the base 4 or 4S....... but it may not be pronounced after all.
Also, my ride is likely a little rougher than a GTS coupe just by virtue of being a cab, which will still be the case in a C4/4S cab.

CT944

Nice choice in wheel, the GTS needed better wheels from the factory. I have GMGs (19x12 rears), really fills out the rear wide hips.

Ten Years

Well, depends. If your GTS was equipped with SPASM (Sport Suspension), then it will ride 10 mm lower than a car with only PASM. Non-GTS cars can be so equipped, as well. Therefore, a GTS with SPASM will basically ride the same as a C4S with that same option, but slightly "stiffer" than a C4S with only PASM. Make sense?

Btw, I was surprised to read it (and I own the book, so I can find the excerpt for any non-believers) but apparently, model-for-model, all cabs were developed with a substantially softer suspension/chassis setup, when compared to their coupe counterparts. Your cab, even in GTS guise, will ride softer than the coupe version.

Like a previous poster intimated, you'll get used to your car soon enough, and in short order, it won't feel "too stiff" at all. I went from a PASM .2 C2S to a .2 GTS with SPASM, and the added stiffness is a very welcomed improvement. Not bad at all, IMO. Good luck. Enjoy your car in the best of health.

gasongasoff

You may want to test drive a C4/C4S just to be sure yourself. I honestly don't think it will help with ride comfort at all. If you start pushing your car a little more, you may find that you actually want a stiffer than stock suspension (which is what happened to me).

The TPC DSC is probably one of the safer things you can do warranty wise. I swapped mine out (it's a 15 min job tops) while under factory warranty. If you want to reverse it, just plug the stock module back in and you're back to where you were before. To give you an example of adjustment ability, I was able to add stiffer Bilstein shocks, but with a simple adjustment on the DSC, I could make the ride even softer than stock on normal mode! The only downside is that if you really want to tune it, you need a laptop and some time to play with the software. But it'll probably save you a ton of hassle compared to selling and buying a new car. Also, I bet if you asked, TPC could program the module for you before they shipped it, so it truly would be plug and play. No affiliation, but I love my DSC module.

Petza914

I too vote for you trying the DSC module. You can find a used one and if it doesn't give you what you want, should be able to sell it for what you paid. There's one on eBay from a member that hit a deer and another from TTSurgeon (I think). With your car being a .2 you only need the front module which is a 10-15 minute swap. Non-turbo and Non-GT .1 cars need the control box and a 3-axis accelerometer that installs in the rear. My car is lowered, has no rubber bits left in the suspension (all RSS) and with the DSC tuning I could do, actually rides softer in a straight line than it did with the OEM PASM on Normal. It's g-forces that stiffen the suspension and it's dynamic. .

This won't help you with your transmission dilemma, but will help to resolve your ride quality issue.

I'm a MT guy too. 4 of my 5 Porsches are stick-shifts and I almost bought the GTS version of the Cayenne to get one in it too, but decided that didn't outweigh the 550HP from the Turbo S in that type of vehicle. Yours is too nice to swap for a high-mileage one though. Also, figure out a way to drive both drive platforms before buying one, as with the GTS, you can have the wide rear and RWD manners together and you don't need it for snow capability where you live.

snake eyes

spot on..
GTS is an option packaged car, it doesn't have specific model suspension like a GT model car.
my c4s with SPASM is the same as the GTS with SPASM.
I've drove a GTS with PASM and it felt softer with more body roll that's when I did some research into Porsche options.

That said the best setup to truly be softer is going to a BASE 911 or C4.
Or just get a 991.1 C2S with PASM as they ride significantly smoother without performance sacrifice you get on the 997.2 models softer suspension layouts.
You also get active rev matching on the 991.1 if you're not perfect on heel to toe.

Fined

Thanks!




This makes sense. Since a cabrio version of a sports car is already compromised to an extent (for sporting purposes).. it stands to reason they would give it softer suspension. You may as well have a supple ride with your vert.

bruinmd

........... in retrospect, had I bought my car as a 6MT and learned what I needed to then to drive it properly, I wouldn't have started this thread, because I would likely have kept my car for the forseeable future, and fitted it with a DSC module, like many here have recommended.
Then again, I need to get more comfortable with a manual before I can probably make such a definitive statement (I may be clamoring for PDK in a year

I definitely don't want seller's remorse giving up what I think is the best body style 911 that Porsche has ever made...... and I realize I'm giving up a lot to go to a C4 or C4S 997.2, but at the level I'm at driving wise, it's not like I'm getting the most out of my GTS in any case, so I still think I'll have plenty of fun in either of those cars with a manual tranny.
Honestly, it will be the missing of a car that I consider so damn beautiful (I need to post some pics).

Just a clarification: the 997's with sport chrono do NOT have rev matching in the 6MT's, correct>....... Is it true that only started with the 991's?

Ten Years

All things considered, why not just learn to drive the PDK GTS "properly," meaning as one would drive a three-pedal manual?

I think you're making the difference out to be much greater than it is. I, and many other PDK owners who were once die-hard manual guys, drive 100% of the time in manual Sport/Sport+. I consider it every bit as "engaging," in its own modern way, as a true old-fashioned manual car; I just don't have to push in a clutch pedal. Sounds like you have yet to learn how to drive the PDK as intended. You're giving the PDK short shrift, when it is capable of so much more than you think, right now. Have you ever studied up on what the PDK is, and how it works? It's truly amazing technology. And it's much more "mechanical" than you think.

If, even after you've learned to extract the most out of your PDK equipped GTS, you still feel the need to own a manual car, then keep the GTS, and pick up a higher mileage Honda S2000 for $16-18,000. That car won't be depreciating much either, as it is itself a future classic. Best of both worlds.

Nip are

I think you've found your answer. It's not the ride quality, it's the transmission. You could get a softer ride with a non-s model but you can also make changes to yours to soften it up. You can't reasonably change the transmission. You are not the first person to buy a PDK car and then wish you had a MT. And it's very rare for someone to do the opposite.