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Have the 3.6, MT and it's crazy fast. Only 10 HP down on the 997.1S (according to Porsche but who knows what the real dyno story is) and faster to 60 if memory serves me. This is the rationale I use whenever the "shoulda got an S" creeps into my mind - My 2009 C2 is faster than a 2008 C2S.
Same or similar size brakes as the 997.1S too. Oh and the money I saved on the purchase, I put into mods to make it perfect - lowering springs, SharkWerks, new steering wheel, etc....
After 3 years, I can honestly say no regret at all - certainly not disappointed with the 3.6L power-wise.. I'd slightly modify what another poster said so eloquently in answer to your post "of course it will, and of course YOU might".
^This sums up my experience pretty good. I chose a 997.2 base that was at the time $6-8k cheaper than most similar 997.1 S cars and $10k+ cheaper than similar 997.2 S cars. I'm a happy camper.
Originally Posted by lancepantz
I got the C2S a couple of months ago...
already planning an upgrade to a turbo
It's like the opposite of buyers remorse though, I love the car so much that I want more!
fbfisher nailed it.
With that being said, if an S (or 2wd GTS) came up in a manual and perfect color combo, I might upgrade, but it would have to be a good deal.
I'm pretty much in the same boat. I opted for a Base C2 when I found an impeccable black Cab that was optioned well and well maintained. Also from a price perspective it was about 7-8K cheaper than a comparable S.
In retrospect I could have held out for an S and who knows in the future, I may sell the Base and find an S or GTS, though going through the whole looking and negotiating process involves a lot of stress and OCD analysis.
Also my rationale was since I wanted a Cab, I never intend to track it and the power the Base provides is fine for cruising around town and the occasional long drive.
I own a modified C2 and its pretty fast for daily driving and trackdays.
I have friends with C2S and the difference its not really noticeably.
In fact in a 2.450 meters circuit the difference between my C2 and C2S its 1-2 seconds.
If you want to buy it for daily driving i think is a good decision and the power is enough.
all depends on what kind of car guy you are.... If you like to mod things and upgrade things then the S is the must have car. If your not that kind of owner then the none S is an amazing car and so close performance wise worth the savings.
Its less about the performance left behind IMO and more about the type of owner you are.... I have boats, cars, 4x4, scooters, jet skis etc.. and NONE are stock so would never again consider a none S. That said, my first P car was a none S and although was a great car on every level I spent more on mods then if I just went with an S.
Looking at 997.2's for daily driving duties and the standard Carreras I'm finding are 6-8k less than C2S's and C4S's.
Am I crazy for considering the plain Jane carrera non s 997.2? What say ye? Can the 3.6 get the job done? Will I regret not getting a 3.8? Hmmmm
If you are going to be using it to drive around town... I don't think there's anything wrong with a non-S. Just realize you will be missing some performance in comparison to the S... but depending on how you use it... that may not even matter.
I know somebody for example who has an S... but for some reason won't rev the engine beyond 4,000rpm. So he's not even making use of the car's capabilities. If you rather have cash in your pocket... no point in paying extra money for something you're not going to use.
II know somebody for example who has an S... but for some reason won't rev the engine beyond 4,000rpm. So he's not even making use of the car's capabilities. If you rather have cash in your pocket... no point in paying extra money for something you're not going to use.
Tell your friend he's slowly damaging his car. The highest load on the IMS bearing (all years and all types) occurs at idle and the higher the RPMs the more unloaded the bearing becomes. The second worst thing you can do is lug these engines in high gears at low RPMs as it creates a lot of timing chain load and lash. A 997.1 car should really never be driven below 2,000 RPM (2,500 even better) and revving them up over 4k/5k is fine and actually preferred.
This is of course after the car and the fluids are warmed up.
I spent a lot of time agonizing over the base verses S when I was ordering my 2011 997.2 , and I went with the base with the manual transmission, and I'm delighted. I put some of the savings into full leather and PSE. As a daily driver it it is everything you will ever need. It is really fast! Save the $6-8k.
Mike
Anecdotally, the non-adjustable suspension in the non-S is a bit better aligned with street driving than S (firmer than S non-sport mode, softer than S sport mode). The hp (and especially torque) difference between S and non-S is negligible - we are talking less than variance due to small changes in weather or elevation. I actually prefer the black brake calipers rather than the flashy red. In the end it's still a 911 and is the benchmark sports car every other brand is chasing.
I've had my 997.1 C2 for close to 8 years now (bought new) - and while I've heavily modded all of my prior sports cars, I just can't find anything to improve on the Porsche. Every time I take it for a drive it reminds me what an amazing machine it is. I have zero lust for an S or a Turbo.
I own an S and it truly is about buying the right car. I think to find a car that is cared for and maintained like a Porsche should be is more important that whether or not it is an S. Horsepower is overrated. I traded a 2013 GT500 for mine and I enjoy the drive handle and feel much more than nearly 700 horsepower. More power is for straight lines, I have not yet had mine to VIR but I can tell you the car is more talented than the driver!
I had cross-shopped a .1 S with a .2 base. Besides the interior, the .2 was just an overall better car--even in the base form
I hated the sport suspension on the S and quickly turned it off while test driving. The exhaust did sound much better though.
I do like tinkering so with my .2 I installed Eibach springs which made the car ride even better and I upgraded the exhaust. so it sounds better than the PSE and saved weight. Both of those upgrades I probably would have done with the S anyway so it is not like would have saved that money by going S and all of the decent S were $10k over what I paid for mine.
One other thing I should mention is the only thing I find unacceptable on the C2 is the ride height. It's just ridiculous in my opinion and must be fixed. The S is 10mm lower than the base car, which is better but still too high. New springs (TechArt or Eibach) drop the base C2 by 25mm which to me is perfect... I would do lowering springs whether I had the S or the base. Another positive for the base car is it does not have PASM as standard - I didn't want it due to complexity, future repair costs (this is a long-term car for me) and the base suspension sits between the PASM "street".and "track" setting, which I liked.... And if you want a really cool suspension, check out what EMC2 did to his C2 - lots of posts on that setup if you search.
I asked similar questions in the past and here is my perspective.
I'm going to draw some comparisons using my 2014 Panamera GTS and my 2009 Carrera 3.6 PDK
I know they are very different cars, but hopefully the observations can be of some assistance
I recently replaced my Panamera 4S with a Panamera GTS and the GTS is incredible in all respects. Amazing sound, dynamics and power, and of course lots of torque.
Around the same time I also added GT3 swaybars, Tarett Drop Links, TechArt springs and an M&M Street Sport exhaust to my 997.2 PDK (3.6).
The handling characteristics, sound and feel of my (2009) 911 is now so good, that it leaves no gap in my expectations between the two cars. As a frequent car shopper it also leaves no urge to even look at a 991.
To say it differently; I never feel like the 911 is a lesser car than the PGTS or that I wish I had a few more HP or Nm in the 911. Certainly the low end torque is weaker on the 911 compared to the PGTS but that can be fixed easily by keeping the revs in the right range.
So if power is a concern, I think a lot can be done to the base Carrera that can help you exploit the available power better and feel/hear it more.
Also If going for a 911 "S" model; from my own perspective I would have wanted one with SPASM to get that slightly lower ride height (or change the springs) and I also would still add the GT3 swaybars. So depending on your planned spend, and your preferences, these may also need to be considered.
There is no doubt that I would probably be even more thrilled with a 911 "S" given the same changes I made to my non "S".
I've succumbed many times in the past to the "upgrade urge".
However, I feel both very fortunate and extremely satisfied with these 2 beauties in the family right now, and for once I may actually keep some of my cars for many years :thumb:
Good luck in your search, you really can't go wrong with a 997.2 (due diligence applied of course, PPI etc...).
We are all very lucky to be even able to have such dilemma's about which Porsche to choose.
They make all the varieties for a reason. They know it's human nature to go for the best car as an emotional decision, and then rationalize your way into it after the fact. Bigger this. Faster that. Lighter whatever. It's not really relevant for street driving. Even a Prius is fast enough to get a speeding ticket.
If you want the S for the performance improvements - and it makes sense financially - you should get it. If you want the S because you will otherwise be ostracized by [strangers/buddies/Porsche crowd/etc] because you cheaped out and got a base model, well, you might be a P-car snob or a full on P-douche.
It's a car. Buy it. Enjoy it. Get rid of it later and then get another one. Rinse. Repeat.
02-25-2016, 10:12 AM
