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Old 03-15-2019, 01:43 AM
  #4681  
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I shopped 997.2 and 991.1 extensively and thought I was going 991 until I found a 997.2 that ticked all the boxes. I bought it from Tim and we had a good conversation comparing the two generations. In his experience the small gap between them is placing downward pressure on the 997.2.

He also related that they had a really nice 991 C2S that they couldnít move but has trouble finding nice 997.2s to sell.

Iím not cheerleading the 997.2 as I like them both, just sharing the conversation I had with a very well respected Porsche indy dealer who probably knows more about the market than most.

Originally Posted by LISsailor View Post


While the pricing may have remained steady, it may be because they are being buoyed by 997.2 prices which are almost identical. We are now seeing evidence of the pricing crossing over. According to some people, the 991 market is messing up values of older cars because to many layman, it does not make sense yet. This opinion came to me straight from Tim Holt.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:50 AM
  #4682  
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It would be interesting to compare the msrps between similar (as possible) 997.2 and 991.1. Iím guessing the spread is more than the difference in current prices.

Originally Posted by raidersfan View Post
I haven't seen pricing get close yet; in most examples, the spread is $10-15k. The 997.2 C4S (2011) Aqua Blue PDK that was posted a few weeks back with 9,000 miles was listed at $66,900. The cheapest 2013 C4S (1st year of 991 C4S production) coupe in the country with less than 20k miles is priced at $79,000, and most are above $80k.

A friend recently bought a 2013 C2S with all sport options and Sport Design kit; it had 58,000 miles. It was a very, very nice car and super clean, but high on mileage, and he paid $62,500. I have never seen a 997.2 C2S with PDK and nearly 60,000 miles command north of $50,000. A manual with that kind of mileage might get sold in the low 50's.

Even the GTS spread is $15-20k.

Both are great cars, but even the GT3 991 vs 997.2 has a $10k spread. That is saying something, as the 997.2 GT3 is highly coveted and the last of the Mezger (and, it was assumed, the last 6MT GT3).

My math shows that the jump from 997.1 to 997.2 to 991.1 is around 25% per generation when comparing apples to apples. The 991.2 is a bit too new perhaps as it is still steeper in the depreciation curve with fewer examples for sale, but a low mile well equipped C2S 2015 will likely command $80k, and a low-mile well-equipped 2017 C2S $100k (again, 25%).
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:18 AM
  #4683  
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rw229 - you have a really nice 993 in your photo, is it an auto or manual? How do you like it compare to the 997? Seriously considering a 993 over the 997. any insights would greatly be appreciated.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:11 PM
  #4684  
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991 is a beautiful design that oozes presence. Especially the turbo S

According to the local shop, Porsche stepped up their game with reliability going from 997 to 991. The recent survey showed the 991 being the most reliable/dependable model in the world vs all other car models including the Prius. He said whereas the 997 would require significant servicing after a year of tracking, the 991 would just keep going.

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Old 03-15-2019, 12:18 PM
  #4685  
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post link to survey please
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:25 PM
  #4686  
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But if only they made the 991 easier to service by the owner I would be more interested. I can see why "local shops" praise and persuade folks to move towards the 991.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:42 PM
  #4687  
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Originally Posted by rw229 View Post
It would be interesting to compare the msrps between similar (as possible) 997.2 and 991.1. Iím guessing the spread is more than the difference in current prices.


Typically MSRP is about a $7-10k jump depending on options. For example, a 2012 997.2 PDK build is typically $107-109k. A similarly equipped 2012 991 would be $117k. The one I posted that had full leather and sport design (2013) stickered at $121k.

the 997.2 C4S I posted had an MSRP of $120k I believe (late model C4S), and the typical 991 2013 C4S comes in at high 120's.

The difference between the 2009 and 2012 997.2 MSRP are significant as well. Pricing increased by around 5% during those years.

The best way to figure this stuff out is to take a 2012 997.2 and compare directly with a 2012-2013 991. That way, age depreciation isn't a factor. A 2009 will always be cheaper than a 2012 given identical build, mileage, and condition. That is why I used these examples. It is tougher to compare the GTS, for example, as a 3-year difference in age is significant.

I started shopping back 3 years ago, and back then, the spread between a 2012 997.2 C2S and similarly equipped 2012 991 C2S was a bit more; closer to $15k consistently, but with prices higher, it still represents a 25% jump in generational pricing.

I don't know Tim Holt personally, but as he sells only older models, he may not be an unbiased source! I have seen more than a few people trying to convince others that their 997.2 GT3 is "really" worth $120k, even though the market is settling in the low 100's for most 20 to 30k cars with solid builds. Those people also tend to be sitting on a lot of inventory at the moment that they paid too much for last year.

I prefer to run the numbers, talk to people, and see what their cars actually sell for. The fact is; a 997.1 for $40k, a 997.2 for $50k, or a 991.1 for $62k are all fabulous cars that ANYONE should be very happy to own.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:48 PM
  #4688  
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Originally Posted by loungin View Post
991 is a beautiful design that oozes presence. Especially the turbo S

According to the local shop, Porsche stepped up their game with reliability going from 997 to 991. The recent survey showed the 991 being the most reliable/dependable model in the world vs all other car models including the Prius. He said whereas the 997 would require significant servicing after a year of tracking, the 991 would just keep going.

If it were a PDK and had the 3rd radiator installed, perhaps!

The 991 is a lot newer though. Bore scoring hasn't proven to be an issue, yet. Most everyone I know who has owned a 991 has found it to be rock solid; countless people have bought the extended warranty only to never touch it. The 997 is reliable for what it is, but if you look at some of the cars for sale, you will see a LOT of receipts on a 60k mile car that you won't see on a 991; just little things that seem to fail early. It would be fairly easy to determine: just look at the service histories of the typical 997 50k mile car here, and compare it to 991 50k mile cars. I haven't done an actual count, but of the several cars I have looked at (both types), the 991 appears to require less small item service.

There was a really nice 997.1 with Vorsteiner front and rear bumpers, and super nice Forgeline wheels for sale a couple of weeks back. That guy had a stack of papers an inch thick, he told me! Blown engine was the biggie, but there were a lot of small issues dealt with over the years.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:17 PM
  #4689  
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Thanks. That was my 2nd 993, (both manual) and it was a DE car with modified suspension and safety equipment.. I sold it to a forum member who was in the auto industry and I believe he did and RS type conversion on it.

993 is a great car, a bit different than the 997. More of a go for a drive than a daily. Best advice would be to research and drive both. I would take either.

Originally Posted by Vincent713 View Post
rw229 - you have a really nice 993 in your photo, is it an auto or manual? How do you like it compare to the 997? Seriously considering a 993 over the 997. any insights would greatly be appreciated.
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:21 AM
  #4690  
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Originally Posted by rw229 View Post
Thanks. That was my 2nd 993, (both manual) and it was a DE car with modified suspension and safety equipment.. I sold it to a forum member who was in the auto industry and I believe he did and RS type conversion on it.

993 is a great car, a bit different than the 997. More of a go for a drive than a daily. Best advice would be to research and drive both. I would take either.


That's exactly what I'm looking for, the go for a drive type of car with the occasional weekend trip 1000+- miles. Also, the occasional traffic jam which you can never avoid where I live. Thanks for the insight!
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Old 03-16-2019, 05:41 PM
  #4691  
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Phone number matches Philadelphia area so this could be a nice deal: https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/...838062717.html

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Old 03-16-2019, 07:30 PM
  #4692  
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Originally Posted by Flat_Six_ View Post
Phone number matches Philadelphia area so this could be a nice deal: https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/...838062717.html

I highly doubt that is real base on the way it is advertised. That being said, cabriolets are a lot less expensive than a coupe in the used market.
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Old 03-16-2019, 08:15 PM
  #4693  
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Originally Posted by Flat_Six_ View Post
Phone number matches Philadelphia area so this could be a nice deal: https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/...838062717.html

Originally Posted by Vincent713 View Post
I highly doubt that is real base on the way it is advertised. That being said, cabriolets are a lot less expensive than a coupe in the used market.
This is a scam. It's posted on all the craigslist sites, even here in TX, same photos. Nothin to see here...
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:41 PM
  #4694  
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Originally Posted by jeebus31 View Post
This is a scam. It's posted on all the craigslist sites, even here in TX, same photos. Nothin to see here...
no mileage indicated. 2 photos. very little info. the post looks shady but itís definitely a local number. if itís a scam Iíll prank call them all week.
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Old 03-17-2019, 12:05 AM
  #4695  
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Originally Posted by Flat_Six_ View Post


no mileage indicated. 2 photos. very little info. the post looks shady but itís definitely a local number. if itís a scam Iíll prank call them all week.
https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d...836765480.html this one has a houston number

https://austin.craigslist.org/cto/d/...836891374.html this one has an austin number

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ct...836161001.html this one has a dallas number

I could keep going. But it's definitely a scam.
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