997s deals around the interwebz (no affiliation)
#3706
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,128
Likes: 906
From: Destin, Nashville, In a 458 Challenge
I think we talked about this at one point, but how much do you think paintwork not on carfax is going to affect you on dealer trade or even private sale? I just think that with these cars approaching 10 years old (for a 997.2) that is going to be more and more common for something to need to be fixed with the paint. But I may be wrong and there may be plenty of no paintwork cars available. Then the buyer needs to figure out whether they would rather have imperfections or paintwork.
Not sure if you guys are aware of this, but a few years back 5 to 7, it seemed like there were a lot of cars that were junk with serious and major repairs moving through auctions with clean Car Faxes. Those without clean car fax were being sold with clean Autochecks . . .
This is why I pretty much shy away from these types of cars that went through auctions. A good clean, undamaged 997 would never get sent to auction unless it had issues, pretty serious issues.
Guys looking for reasonably priced drivers may be okay with resprays, but guys willing to spend premium dollars for premium condition, low mileage cars won’t and that actually tends to be the primary market. I honestly don’t think the guys here reflect the main market. People seem to be more **** in the real world versus guys in here that are more enthusiast types looking for a great driver and to get a great deal.
So, I do think unreported damage shrinks the market and reduces the price. These extra clean CPO cars with low miles tend to look showroom, whereas the drivers that are selling for discounts look like used cars with some miles on them.
Me, I don’t really care as I rarely even wash my cars. I, however, don’t want damaged, repainted cars and I focus real heavily on mechanical and only buy cars serviced by authorized dealerships. Rock chips and a few cosmetic blemishes don’t bother me.
#3707
Does this imply then that Mannheim prices (those are wholesale auction results, right?) may not totally reflect market conditions, since the cars' conditions or histories might be a bit more questionable/sketchy/etc.?
Guys looking for reasonably priced drivers may be okay with resprays, but guys willing to spend premium dollars for premium condition, low mileage cars won’t and that actually tends to be the primary market. I honestly don’t think the guys here reflect the main market. People seem to be more **** in the real world versus guys in here that are more enthusiast types looking for a great driver and to get a great deal.
#3708
I wouldn’t buy it because I have a DB11 and a 991.2 Turbo cab as my daily drivers. When I purchase cars for myself, I don’t purchase the cheapest. Only fools look for and purchase the cheapest in the sports car market. The cheapest cars in these markets usually turn out to be the most expensive in the 12 to 18 month out range.
A lot of the supposed great deals on these 8 to 12 year old Porsches have paint work and damage that doesn’t show up on Car Fax. There is generally a reason they are cheap and if you see auction on your Car Fax and your car is a desireable color with normal or better miles, there very likely is a story, paint work and/or repairs. Most people just cannot see it if it was done well.
Your market opinions is dictated by 3 months of being a 911 guy and time on a forum looking at pictures in listings. It is a little different when you are buying and selling these in the flesh over long periods of time. You then quickly become aware of the difference between 911s selling in low end of market versus those selling in high end of the market. Great cars bring great prices.
This nearly identical car is priced $13k less has been on the market for 124 days it's a 1 owner with no stories. And on the nose directly - after a $14k price drop - still there.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomeP ageModel&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&e ntitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=c22061&entitySelectingHelper.selecte dEntity2=c22961&zip=90210&distance=50000&searchChanged=true&trimNames=Ca rrera+S+Cabriolet&trimNames=Carrera+4S+AWD+Cabriolet&modelChanged=false& filtersModified=true#listing=202285572
#3709
This market can be weird and wrecks on a car Fax causes big hits in value even when minor damage.
Not sure if you guys are aware of this, but a few years back 5 to 7, it seemed like there were a lot of cars that were junk with serious and major repairs moving through auctions with clean Car Faxes. Those without clean car fax were being sold with clean Autochecks . . .
This is why I pretty much shy away from these types of cars that went through auctions. A good clean, undamaged 997 would never get sent to auction unless it had issues, pretty serious issues.
Guys looking for reasonably priced drivers may be okay with resprays, but guys willing to spend premium dollars for premium condition, low mileage cars won’t and that actually tends to be the primary market. I honestly don’t think the guys here reflect the main market. People seem to be more **** in the real world versus guys in here that are more enthusiast types looking for a great driver and to get a great deal.
So, I do think unreported damage shrinks the market and reduces the price. These extra clean CPO cars with low miles tend to look showroom, whereas the drivers that are selling for discounts look like used cars with some miles on them.
Me, I don’t really care as I rarely even wash my cars. I, however, don’t want damaged, repainted cars and I focus real heavily on mechanical and only buy cars serviced by authorized dealerships. Rock chips and a few cosmetic blemishes don’t bother me.
#3710
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,128
Likes: 906
From: Destin, Nashville, In a 458 Challenge
You're going on an on about this 3 month thing like an old man that brags about screwing for 40 years but never brought a woman to orgasm.
This nearly identical car is priced $13k less has been on the market for 124 days it's a 1 owner with no stories. And on the nose directly - after a $14k price drop - still there.
This nearly identical car is priced $13k less has been on the market for 124 days it's a 1 owner with no stories. And on the nose directly - after a $14k price drop - still there.
Here again, you are going by pictures and have no clue if there has been repaired damage, respray, or cosmetic issues. You have no idea if it needs a major service, clutch, tires, serpentine belt and etc. Some of this would be due at 6 years regardless of miles.
I could get the skinny on that car if anyone is interested as those guys are friends with my close buddy in Hallendale Beach that owns Emillia Motors.
#3711
This happens way too often in internet forums - my initial post was in response to Vincent's efforts to sway the 997 market by posting under priced outliers. As a result, Doug posts over priced outliers. Neither the over or under priced cars affect the majority of sales in the middle of the bell curve where most cars are and most buyers and sellers conduct transactions.
Almost all 6-9 year old cars are going to have flaws, some abuse, some stupid mistake done to them by the owner, mechanics, or valets (or all of the above). If you want something near perfect order a new one and never drive it. You'll still have to come here and argue with the all those that say the worst thing to do a Porsche is garage queen it.
A lot can go wrong in 201 miles (sarcasm) - https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=RecentSearche s_false_0&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO& entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404&entitySelectingHelper.selected Entity2=&zip=90210&distance=50000&searchChanged=true&maxundefined=8000&m odelChanged=false&filtersModified=true#listing=205866778
Almost all 6-9 year old cars are going to have flaws, some abuse, some stupid mistake done to them by the owner, mechanics, or valets (or all of the above). If you want something near perfect order a new one and never drive it. You'll still have to come here and argue with the all those that say the worst thing to do a Porsche is garage queen it.
A lot can go wrong in 201 miles (sarcasm) - https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=RecentSearche s_false_0&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO& entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d404&entitySelectingHelper.selected Entity2=&zip=90210&distance=50000&searchChanged=true&maxundefined=8000&m odelChanged=false&filtersModified=true#listing=205866778
Last edited by Meursault88; 07-23-2018 at 12:46 PM.
#3714
Meursalt88 - I'm not trying to sway anything! Did you not read where I said I'm not trying to dictate the market but merely just an observer?? People have different outlook, perspective, opinions and I respect that. We all should, so lets move on.
#3715
Does this imply then that Mannheim prices (those are wholesale auction results, right?) may not totally reflect market conditions, since the cars' conditions or histories might be a bit more questionable/sketchy/etc.?
People in the real world are more **** than Rennlisters?? Scary thought...
People in the real world are more **** than Rennlisters?? Scary thought...
#3716
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,128
Likes: 906
From: Destin, Nashville, In a 458 Challenge
The GTS was only $75k and it had what I initially thought was a factory aero kit, but I did not look closely. Factory aero kits on 997.2s are rare so I linked it in case someone was looking for one.
I linked the CPO 2012 C2S cab at $72k (almost mid point for the 10 2012 C2S cabs on Cars.com) because it was manual, had low miles, had a desirable color and was a CPO. I could have linked 3 or 4 other 2012 997.2 C2S cabs that were more expensive if price was the focus.
I linked the 2 Targa 4Ss in case someone on here was in the market for a Targa because they are pretty rare. Both were also incredible cars and the manual, cream white, tan with deviating black carpets was perhaps a unicorn type find for someone.
#3717
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,128
Likes: 906
From: Destin, Nashville, In a 458 Challenge
Manheim is all over the place right now. Too much to explain here . . . Most of the NA 997.2s I have seen on Manheim over the past 1 1/2 to 2 years have been trash, utter trash. There are a few decent turbos and a lot of GT3s being offered wholesale, but the NA cars running through auction are pitiful. Decent to good NA 997s will not make it auction. The market is too solid for these unless they are mess or need a lot of $$$ to bring their condition up to sell.
As to cars like Mercedes and etc. . . . Manheim is pretty much the place to find trashed out cars coming off lease. Dealers get first pick of cars coming off lease, keep the good stuff, certify and can typically sell it at the same or lower price CPOed than the trash they pass on that ends up at smaller lots. One of my best friends here purchases for several high end lots here and a large high end lot in Seattle that another one of our friends runs. Sam does nothing but sit in front of 5 or 6 computer monitors at his home and bid on cars all day, six days a week. For the last almost 2 years, the big corporations like Carvana and CarMax have run up auction prices on Mercedes, Audis and BMWs and etc. to the point they are brining dang near retail at auction. They don't care about front-end profit as they make their $$$s of huge volume and back end profit. This is killing the smaller lots and literally made it where Mercedes, Porsche and Audi dealerships owned by corporations such as Sonic can and will sell their low mileage, extra clean CPO cars cheaper than the trashed out auction cars with very little left on the factory warranty sell for at smaller lots. They are getting killed right now and inventory, especially decent inventory, is getting difficult to come by for these smaller, non-nationwide corporate used car lots.
#3718
One of my best friends here purchases for several high end lots here and a large high end lot in Seattle that another one of our friends runs. Sam does nothing but sit in front of 5 or 6 computer monitors at his home and bid on cars all day, six days a week. For the last almost 2 years, the big corporations like Carvana and CarMax have run up auction prices on Mercedes, Audis and BMWs and etc. to the point they are brining dang near retail at auction. They don't care about front-end profit as they make their $$$s of huge volume and back end profit. This is killing the smaller lots and literally made it where Mercedes, Porsche and Audi dealerships owned by corporations such as Sonic can and will sell their low mileage, extra clean CPO cars cheaper than the trashed out auction cars with very little left on the factory warranty sell for at smaller lots. They are getting killed right now and inventory, especially decent inventory, is getting difficult to come by for these smaller, non-nationwide corporate used car lots.[/QUOTE]
That's a solid bit of intel - thank you.
That's a solid bit of intel - thank you.
#3719
http://www.universityaudilynnwood.co...AB2A9XAS721083
Anyone in the area/Seattle area seen this car?
Anyone in the area/Seattle area seen this car?
#3720
This one deserves a look:
2010 S cab w/ MT, 2 owners, 68k miles for $39k. Of course the accident is pushing the price down but otherwise...
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=213019375
2010 S cab w/ MT, 2 owners, 68k miles for $39k. Of course the accident is pushing the price down but otherwise...
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=213019375