Who else is thinking of picking up an Air Cooled?
09-09-2015, 09:53 PM
#61
Race Car
I highly doubt that 997.1s are a strong buy. Unless you mean that for $20K you get a lot of Porsche, but...
For one the engine is very problematic (IMS, RMS, Scored cylinders, etc..). Then Porsche made over 130,000 of them in a four year span. For comparison under 45,000 997.2s were made.
They will continue to drop in price for a while still. And unfortunately dragging the 997.2s with them.
For one the engine is very problematic (IMS, RMS, Scored cylinders, etc..). Then Porsche made over 130,000 of them in a four year span. For comparison under 45,000 997.2s were made.
They will continue to drop in price for a while still. And unfortunately dragging the 997.2s with them.
Check your stats, the ACTUAL numbers affected by these issues of the 997 (not the 996) is extremely low. These are not Boxsters.
09-09-2015, 10:01 PM
#62
I highly doubt that 997.1s are a strong buy. Unless you mean that for $20K you get a lot of Porsche, but...
For one the engine is very problematic (IMS, RMS, Scored cylinders, etc..). Then Porsche made over 130,000 of them in a four year span. For comparison under 45,000 997.2s were made.
They will continue to drop in price for a while still. And unfortunately dragging the 997.2s with them.
For one the engine is very problematic (IMS, RMS, Scored cylinders, etc..). Then Porsche made over 130,000 of them in a four year span. For comparison under 45,000 997.2s were made.
They will continue to drop in price for a while still. And unfortunately dragging the 997.2s with them.
Show me your evidence.
09-09-2015, 11:18 PM
#63
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This is the only reason why early 997.1s are selling for $20K, dragging the values of the rest of the 997s with them. And that is a fact. Look at how ridiculously cheap some of them are.
Yes, a lot of these cars were made. Yes, a small fraction of them are affected by these issues. But buying one, IMO, is like saying smoking is ok. A lot of people smoke and only a small fraction of them die of lung cancer. (G*d please forgive me for this analogy). I'd rather put my money into an aircooled Porsche right now than a 997.1. Again, just my opinion . No need to get worked up over it.
09-09-2015, 11:26 PM
#64
Race Car
Mr. Stanley with all do respect you're very confused and also spreading typical ill-informed internet garbage. The only 997 you'll find for 20k is a flood car salvage or heavily wrecked vehicle.
09-10-2015, 01:10 AM
#65
The market is just out of hand with air cooled Porsches right now. I think 993's deserve a fair amount of their value, but 964's have nearly doubled their value in just a few years.
I'm quite sad I missed out on a decent 964, and there's no way I'm paying the current asking price for a decent specimen.
...And if you want to knock the 997, you should start with bore scoring. IMS issues are mild in later models, but bore scoring is still a wild card to me. I haven't sorted out the truth for bore scoring, and I'm not sure I will ever figure it out.
I'm quite sad I missed out on a decent 964, and there's no way I'm paying the current asking price for a decent specimen.
...And if you want to knock the 997, you should start with bore scoring. IMS issues are mild in later models, but bore scoring is still a wild card to me. I haven't sorted out the truth for bore scoring, and I'm not sure I will ever figure it out.
09-10-2015, 11:21 AM
#66
Three Wheelin'
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Would love to have a 964 together with my 997.1 but moneywise I cant do it 
In a few years i would really like to have a used 991.2 as well. I think the steps in technology between these three is interesting. But the 964 is so expensive nowadays. However - To me it is the most interesting of the air cooled. Perhaps because I was looking at it in magazines when I was younger. The 993 is not the same IMO.
In a few years i would really like to have a used 991.2 as well. I think the steps in technology between these three is interesting. But the 964 is so expensive nowadays. However - To me it is the most interesting of the air cooled. Perhaps because I was looking at it in magazines when I was younger. The 993 is not the same IMO.
09-10-2015, 11:35 AM
#67
Drifting
The air cooled cars have to be in a bubble--if for no other reason than that the prices are increasing at an unsustainable rate. When people are considering buying them as investments, the market starts to attract irrational actors. I think that's what we're seeing right now.
The prices for them may not crash, but we'll see a plateau at the very least. These cars aren't like Duesenbergs or Ferrari GTOs. They didn't make a lot of them compared to Mustangs or Camaros, but they aren't rare by any stretch of the imagination. And even if you think they are rare, any car collector knows that rarity doesn't equal valuable.
I've been priced out of the market for any air cooled car that I might be interested in, but my threshold is set lower on these cars than some other people. There's definitely more room for prices to go up a little more, but this rate of increase is irrational and has to have an endpoint.
The prices for them may not crash, but we'll see a plateau at the very least. These cars aren't like Duesenbergs or Ferrari GTOs. They didn't make a lot of them compared to Mustangs or Camaros, but they aren't rare by any stretch of the imagination. And even if you think they are rare, any car collector knows that rarity doesn't equal valuable.
I've been priced out of the market for any air cooled car that I might be interested in, but my threshold is set lower on these cars than some other people. There's definitely more room for prices to go up a little more, but this rate of increase is irrational and has to have an endpoint.
09-10-2015, 11:43 AM
#68
Rennlist Member
I purchased a 993 with 36k miles in 2010, and sold it a couple years later. It was in beautiful shape, but given the questionable fit and finish to begin with, it was a losing battle to try to keep it in beautiful shape. I'm sorry I didn't wait a couple more years to sell, but no way would I pay this kind of coin for one.
09-10-2015, 12:52 PM
#69
Burning Brakes
Occasionally but the climate I live in requires a good AC. I was also experiencing some engine cooling issues at idle in the heat with the AC on, that could have probably been corrected with an on/off switch in the cabin for the high speed oil cooler fan.
It was a sweet car no doubt. I had a cup pipe and cat bypass so it sounded phenomenal. Overall - though - I like the total driving experience in my 997.1 better than the 964. With more garage space I might have kept it and gotten a more modern Porsche...maybe a Boxster S?
But no, no real regrets.
It was a sweet car no doubt. I had a cup pipe and cat bypass so it sounded phenomenal. Overall - though - I like the total driving experience in my 997.1 better than the 964. With more garage space I might have kept it and gotten a more modern Porsche...maybe a Boxster S?
But no, no real regrets.
09-10-2015, 12:53 PM
#70
Burning Brakes
09-10-2015, 12:59 PM
#71
Burning Brakes
I highly doubt that 997.1s are a strong buy. Unless you mean that for $20K you get a lot of Porsche, but...
For one the engine is very problematic (IMS, RMS, Scored cylinders, etc..). Then Porsche made over 130,000 of them in a four year span. For comparison under 45,000 997.2s were made.
They will continue to drop in price for a while still. And unfortunately dragging the 997.2s with them.
For one the engine is very problematic (IMS, RMS, Scored cylinders, etc..). Then Porsche made over 130,000 of them in a four year span. For comparison under 45,000 997.2s were made.
They will continue to drop in price for a while still. And unfortunately dragging the 997.2s with them.
09-10-2015, 01:56 PM
#72
09-10-2015, 03:09 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
The air cooled cars have to be in a bubble--if for no other reason than that the prices are increasing at an unsustainable rate. When people are considering buying them as investments, the market starts to attract irrational actors. I think that's what we're seeing right now.
The prices for them may not crash, but we'll see a plateau at the very least. These cars aren't like Duesenbergs or Ferrari GTOs. They didn't make a lot of them compared to Mustangs or Camaros, but they aren't rare by any stretch of the imagination. And even if you think they are rare, any car collector knows that rarity doesn't equal valuable.
I've been priced out of the market for any air cooled car that I might be interested in, but my threshold is set lower on these cars than some other people. There's definitely more room for prices to go up a little more, but this rate of increase is irrational and has to have an endpoint.
The prices for them may not crash, but we'll see a plateau at the very least. These cars aren't like Duesenbergs or Ferrari GTOs. They didn't make a lot of them compared to Mustangs or Camaros, but they aren't rare by any stretch of the imagination. And even if you think they are rare, any car collector knows that rarity doesn't equal valuable.
I've been priced out of the market for any air cooled car that I might be interested in, but my threshold is set lower on these cars than some other people. There's definitely more room for prices to go up a little more, but this rate of increase is irrational and has to have an endpoint.
09-10-2015, 07:06 PM
#74
Sick of the false rumor spreaders. 20k 997? Yeah, that's the going market price (sic). Stop smoking the crack.
09-10-2015, 09:00 PM
#75
Race Car
Turned out to be a simple AOS failure which he had predicted. The amount of false data going around is incredible. Lots of good information here too, just have to swim through the swamp to find it.
Last edited by Para82; 09-10-2015 at 09:20 PM.