Para82

That's not a bad deal...

halo777

When I was in a similar situation, and did the calculations of used engine vs Jake Raby reconstruction, it looked something like this...

• 20k mile used engine with unknown history
• Pulled from a salvage wreck or flood car (could have unknown damage)
• Installation $1000 at your facility, or about $2000 elsewhere
• Totally stock - no updated parts for any of the multiple weak points of the m97 engine
• $13k IF you get your full core deposit back
• No increased value to car
• Warranty? Is there any? What happens if it d-chunks or experiences other catastrophic failure in 3month, 6months, after 12 months? I'm guessing, at very least, there is not reimbursement for the next installation and shipping charges.

Jake Raby reconstructed engine

• zero miles reconstructed engine
• increased displacement to 4.0 at no additional cost
• Price - You will have to contact Jake, but it was at a very fair price when I checked
• New parts totaling $14-16k alone, addressing all known weak spots of the m96/97, that have been identified through years of R&D @ Flat6
• One person builds the engine, from start to finish
• Install, break in, and first oil change included in price
• Nikisil cylinder liners - NO MORE CHANCE OF CYLINDER WALL SCORING OR FAILURE !!!!
• Substantial power increase
• $5k-$10 increase in resale value of the car
• Flat6 Innovations reputation for outstanding build quality
• An engine that I would have a immensely more confidence in for years to come, than a used engine from a written-off wreck or flood car.

So, if you want to flip the car, a used engine might make sense.

If I plan to keep the car, then there is no way I'm taking a chance on a used engine from a salvage or flood car, for $15k plus install. A few months down the road, and you could be back at step one, with another blown engine.

Just my opinion.

Sneaky Pete

+1 Very well stated. For me having a Raby 4.0 was the way to go now and into the future. I have about 900 miles on mine and am very very happy! As for a warranty, it came with a 1 year unlimited mile warranty (no track time though) with one year's worth of oil.

Bruce In Philly

I agree... I almost pulled the trigger on a Jake Raby engine in my 2000 Boxster S but decided against it simply because the car was so old and had 195K on the chassis. I sold the car as a roller for $3300.

However, I do think you are being a bit too extreme on the rational, and the used engine with 20K by MBM is not a bad deal. IMO, a car with a "hot rod" engine is not more attractive to me... even though I was going to do it for myself, I don't think I would buy a car that wasn't all stock. But that is just me.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Para82

Sneaky Pete,

How about an exhaust vid/recording? Never heard one of these 4.0's......

Para82

Agreed.

halo777

Hey Bruce... I respect your opinion. However, I guess we all calculate the risk of failure of a used salvage/flood car engine differently.

When I went through this situation, I had the chance to buy a salvage car engine for the 996 C4s for about $8500 CAD (about $7000k USD). And still, after much consideration, it just didnt make financial sense. Here's why...

The used 20k engine is not an engine pulled from a perfectly good running car. These are engines pulled from 1) flood cars or 2) insurance write offs.

1) Flood car engine - under no circumstance do I want this engine in my car, unless it has been fully rebuilt. Period. I researched salt water and fresh water flood car engines, and that is my opinion.

2) Total loss car engine - to write off a 997 with 20k on it, you have to have damage totaling something like 80% (this will vary by insurance company). On a 20k 997s, that means you are looking at around a minimum of $30k in damage. Here is a sample on Copart right now of an 06 997s



Just think about the extreme shock that is transmitted through every component of that car when it experienced the crash. After a crash like that, the risk of the engine prematurely failing is MUCH higher, in my opinion, than a stock 20k engine from a non-accident vehicle. And immensely higher than a Jake Raby reconstruction, where the majority of the engine is replaced with new upgraded parts, and all tolerances are verified to be as good as new (or better).

The other issue is that it is very hard to verify that the engine is actually only 20k, when it came from a wreck. Once it is out of the car, there really is no way to verify the mileage. So, when someone tells you the engine is 20k, you are relying on the honor system. Info from another thread regarding engine serial numbers...

Porsche has changed their number convention several times over the years. The engine number would never match the VIN either now or ever because the numbering convention is substantially different.

Finally, do not be concerned about whether the engine number shows the engine to be original to that VIN. Porsche ceased tracking engine numbers to the certificate of authenticity some time ago because these are considered to be mass produced cars and the engines are disposable. My CoA doesn't show the engine number.

When I did my research, and saw what kind of wrecks these used engines are coming out of, I decided that it just wasnt worth the risk.

Like I said, I value your opinion, but dont agree with it at all.

Also, regarding value, I would have gladly paid a $10k premium (in about 2 milliseconds) for my 997 if it had come equipped with a 4.0 Jake Raby engine. But, that is just me

MBMotorsports

Like I said before I have 3 of these engines in stock. One of those is still in the car, which has been my personal daily driver for the last 9,000 miles. It's got 30k miles on odometer right now, and it's in PERFECT condition. Prospective buyer can dive it and test before removal. Car and engine are both in PERFECT condition. BTW, we shoot a video of every used engine we sell, document mileage and test it before removal.
In case anyone wonders why I'd remove good engine from a good car, it's because I send rollers to Poland at least 5 times a month. I have buyers for them before I ship them. That's how I have a lot of used low mileage engines for sale.
The car from Copart in the previous reply is junk, this is something US dismantlers would purchase and later sell an engine online. I only purchase no damage or light front damage cars with 50k miles or less. I install and engine pretty much every week, just look at my Facebook page.
I always give 6 months warranty on my rebuilds, even the priciest rebuilders out there give only 1 year warranty. Still, it's not forever...
It's the customer's choice, some might have more some less time and money to spend.

halo777

hey Martin,

I agree with you, for someone who is in a hurry, or for someone who just doesnt have the money to get a Jake Raby reconstruction, a used engine might be the only choice. Unless it were dirt cheap, it would never be my choice. But, everyone thinks differently.

You say your rebuilds all have a 6 month warranty, but, we weren't discussing your rebuilds. We were discussing your used engines. What is the warranty on the used engines? And if there is a warranty, and it fails under the warranty period, do you cover the install of the replacement engine, and any other associated costs?

semicycler

Interesting. So you pull the engines and ship chassis, damaged or undamaged, to Poland. You see a high demand for these shipments. So what do the folks in Poland do with them? Source an engine locally and rebuild the entire car? How does this work economically for them? Just curious.

KNS

Wondering the same thing - what engines are they putting in over there?

halo777

x3

Very curious. Why such a demand for rollers in Poland? Where are they getting cheap 911 engines to get the rollers back on the road over there?

And where are you finding cars with 'light damage' and 20k? If you get into an accident with light damage, you have the car fixed by insurance. The only cars I ever see at auction and low mileage with damage, are 'total loss'.

Some of the things you are stating sound a bit fishy. Can you explain further, because obviously I am missing something here.

Sneaky Pete

Ever hear of the movie "Gone in Sixty Seconds"? This ain't no movie.

halo777

LOL

Seems car dealing in Poland is kinda like the Wild Wild West...

http://www.polishforums.com/law-14/b...s-traps-48550/

This whole operation is starting to sound a bit shady. But, Ill hold off judgement, until Martin has the chance to explain his business model.

BTW, Martin... can you also post the your Facebook page where you show engines installed weekly, as you stated above? I could only find a page with a guy with your name riding motorcycles. There was no mention of any Porsche there, so I'm guessing it wasnt you. NEVERMIND... found it... thanks.

halo777

Sorry, one more question for MB...

When you ship the low mileage 911 rollers to Poland, and then a high mileage engine is installed in the cars, are you informing the customer?

After reading that thread on Polish car sales, it seems there is rampant fraud in Poland, from guys sending over accident vehicles and selling them as clean cars, and from other shady dealings. So when you are removing the perfectly good engine from a perfectly good car, people are bound to ask, "why"?