SJP3003

I tend to agree with Petza914...have been putting $$ into my 10 yr old 997 over the past 8 months with the intent to keep it a long time as one of the best examples of its ilk.

The annoyances mentioned by BenZ are real: I've gotten past the toasted foam spewing from the air vents. Although the original seats were fine overall, I installed barely used hardback sport seats. Fortunately the paint and celarcoat are fine. The biggest annoyance was the deteriorating soft touch paint and most of that has been replaced with carbon fiber or leather. After adding all of the above and an X51 kit I am hoping to hang onto this car for some time. If the engine blows it will be replaced.

halo777

I'm in the same boat with you and Petza. Ben is ready to send his 911 to the junkyard when it hits 60k. I just purchased my 911 with 70k on the odometer, and I plan to dump a ton of money into it to make it the exact car that I want.

People complain about spending $20-$25k on a high performance reconstructed engine. But those same guys will buy a brand new 911, and lose $50k in depreciation in the next few years. The guy who purchased my 911 paid about $150k CAD for it when new. I got it for about a third of that, after he owned it for about six years. The original owner probably only got about a 1/4 of his original price on trade-in. And in my opinion, the car still looks and drives amazing.

For me, the project is the fun part. I bought an Audi v10 S6 last summer with high mileage, and then sent it to the US right after to get the entire car ripped apart. It has been down there ever since, while they build a bunch of custom performance parts for the car, including long tube headers. By the time I get it back, Ill have spent more on the car in modifications, then I paid for the vehicle itself. I dont see these 'high-mileage' performance vehicles as ready for the junkyard.... I see them as the base for an incredible project, where Ill eventually replace the majority of the parts with new high performance stuff.

And if the engine goes on the 911, it will hurt my bank account for sure, but it will be an opportunity to finally get an amazing engine installed from Flat 6 Innovations. And no way would I put the same original m97 crap back in, especially a used one from a wreck.

M3 Defector

Sounds like you haven't taken very good care of that poor 997. Please give it to someone that will.

Ben Z

LOL absoslutely no need for me to send it to the junkyard as long as there are guys who would rather put their money into a 10 y.o pile of trouble that will never go up in value vs either a new car or an appreciating classic.

Petza914

halo, we're definitely kindred spirits. My current all-consuming project is the "perfecting" of a '79 928 convertible conversion, which I'm calling a 928 Spyder. Bought it in KY in May 2014 complete, but in pieces and didn't even bring it home - shipped it straight to 928MS in WI for an intercooled supercharger installation, GTS brake upgrade, and a whole host of other things including a complete mechanical refresh. The car finally arrived into my garage in December, still in pieces, but running and driving great. Since then I've been updating the electrics (installed a second fuse panel wired direct to the battery, power door locks instead of vacuum, 1000 watt stereo with 9 speakers, auto-dimming mirror, hardwired radar, carbon vinyl interior trim, introduction of rear struts to hold up the rear trunk, and just last night, replaced the warped and splintering fuse & relay panel cover with a custom cut and shaped piece of Corian). The end of this month I'm driving it back to WI to have a Corvette Z06 6-speed transmission installed to replace the rough shifting original 5-speed. It will give me better ratios for the increased power and two overdrives for better mileage.

Ben Z

If by taken good care of it you mean drive it only on weekends in good weather 6 mos of the year and spend more time washing. waxing and pampering it than driving it, then you're absolutely correct. I drive it daily all year, it gets parked outside my office in the tropical heat and torrential rain. I wash it once a week, wax it twice a year. Exactly as was the case with numerous BMW's and Mercedes in the past, and none of them EVER deteriorated as much or as quickly as the 997.

halo777

hey Ben, I am not criticizing your position. In fact, I agree with it 100%. If you dont absolutely love the car, then you would be way better off selling it as a roller, then doing an engine replacement, if things ever go bad.

After a number of car projects, I realized that it is best to start each project with a car that has as many desirable features as possible, and a car you ABSOLUTELY LOVE, before you jump in. I sold my 996 C4s as a roller, because I finally realized the 997 would make a much better starting point.

For me, a few things were important when I chose my 997:

• Colour - White on black was at the top of my list. A combo that I think looks great on the 997, and I wont get sick of over time. I also really like Macadamia Brown and Eucalyptus Green, but they are super rare
• Manual - I love the idea of PDK, but for the car that is a keeper, I want it manual
• Sport seats - Bonus points for a car with sport seats. I can always add Sport buckets later, but it will be costly
• Widebody - IMHO, the widebody NA 997s are some of the nicest looking cars of the entire Porsche lineup. Widebody never goes out of style
• 'S' car - The S verion of the 997 offers quite a bit over the base model, so for me it was a requirement. Since I wanted NA widebody, it pretty much narrowed my choice down to the 997 C4s (GTS and GT3RS are way out of my budget)
• Options - Bonus points for other cool options, like carbon interior trim, painted seat backs, sport steering wheel, nice wheels, SSK, etc. These were not necessities, but things that I would probably add later. Having them included saves me money in the long run.

Things that didnt matter to me...

• 9A1 engine - Would have been nice to have, but not worth anywhere close to the premium that is being charged over a late model m97 engine car. Issues like cylinder wall scoring, are still there with the 9A1. I'd rather put the extra $15k aside for a m97 Flat6 engine with Nickies, if the engine ever grenades
• GPS, radio from 997.2 - I have the upgraded Bose system in my car. I only turn it on at stop lights when I am awaiting the green light, and then it goes back off. The car is manual, and I enjoy hearing the sound of the engine. When I need GPS, I whip out the $99 unit from the glove box.

I was lucky enough to stumble onto a 997.1 C4s that checked almost every box I was looking for, and fell within my budget. It passed a thorough PPI with flying colours, so I made the purchase.

So far, the car has been perfect, and remains unmodded except for wheel spacers. I have a plan for the car, that Ill slowly work through over the next several years, as finances allow. These car projects are what I love to do.

Obviously, most luxury car owners have a different view than mine, of what they want from a car. The majority of people just want what is flashy and new, and has a mileage number on the cluster that makes them feel warm and special. They dont want to fix stuff, and they dont want anything to break or show signs of wear. Car companies intentionally tap into this market, to guarantee repeat, recurring customers. They survive on the people that buy new cars every three or four years.

Simple parts (e.g. power window buttons) show signs of wear before the 4-year lease is up. Little creaks start to be heard, and possibly the dreaded CEL appears !!! With the warranty about to expire at the end of a 4-year lease (or maybe already expired), it is the perfect time to 'upgrade' to a new car. If you ever sat down and did the math of how much it would cost to just replace the switches and fix the rattles, and compared it to new car depreciation, you would see that the choice makes absolutely no mathematical sense. But when did common sense ever come into play when buying a brand new luxury car?

Luxury car purchases are made on emotion, not sense. Most luxury car buyers lose their love for cars that are 'old and worn' (I put that in parentheses, because what is considered 'old and worn' in the North American babied 911 world, is 'new and fresh' in the normal European car realm) , and feel the greatest attachment to something new and fresh.

My attachment to my cars comes as I mod them extensively, and make them exactly what I want. While it might be fun to do that with a brand new car, it makes no sense to rip apart a brand new car and replace half of its parts (unless you are rich, which I am not even close)

I dont think one way of thinking is any better than the other... just different, and almost opposing views.

halo777

Petza, you have one awesome stable of cars! That 928 will be incredible when you are done. First time I have seen a convertible conversion in that model. Very cool!

I love the 928, and wish they would bring back some version of it. I know the Panamera has some aspects of the car, but man, no matter how hard I try I just can't get myself to like the look of the Panamera. I guess it doesnt help that the Audi S7 looks so much better, and offers a lot of what the Porsche does. There are a couple 928 concepts on the web that look very cool, but Im not sure if Porsche has any interest in ever bringing it back. They are too busy making SUVs now.

pavster

@halo777 I wonder if it's simply a function of how long you have had the car? I bought mine new in 2008 thinking it was for sure a keeper. Got it exactly the way I wanted (Macademia Brown, BTW) and absolutely loved the first 4 years. Then the kids came, I moved my office to my house eliminating the commute, and my priorities changed. I don't care about the car as much anymore, and although I sometimes debate doing $20k in mods (supercharger + suspension + wheels) or even more with a Flat6 innovations motor to rekindle the flame, in the end I would get just as much pleasure out of a NC Miata with a 2.5 swap + supercharger, which would cost way less in total and would be arguably more fun to drive at legal speeds.

For now I am keeping the car as long as it continues to be as flawless as it has been for the first 6 years of its life, but if something major goes, all bets are off.

halo777

Yeah, that is a good point. By the time some of my project cars were complete, I was bored and tired with the car, and ended up selling. The big, frustrating projects have a way of wearing you down, mentally and financially, and it takes its toll.

On the v10 Audi, I chose to do things differently. I purchased it, and immediately sent it to the US to start the project. It will likely be 18months from start to finish. When I finally get it back, it will be fully modded the way I want, and it will be like a new car to me, since I havent had any real seat time in it, so far.

On my last Audi S6 wagon, I was about to go all out, and dump a bunch more money into it. I stopped, and asked myself.... after the project is done, will I drive this car for at least five years? The answer was no, so I decided to pickup the v10 instead, and sell off the wagon.

So yeah, my previous comments were gross generalizations. I am sure that most 911 owners are somewhere in between, constantly trying to balance enjoyment of the car with budget constraints.

Before you get ready to dump any large amount of money into the 911, you should ask yourself, 'do I absolutely love the car?' If the answer is no, then maybe it is time to sell. Let it be some other new owners passion for awhile, and find yourself a new play toy

pavster

@halo777 I went through your v10 S6 build thread - what an awesome project. I also considered a v10 s6 as a daily/winter car but chickened out and bought a new Forester XT, and I'll tell you, the car is boring as hell. I am back to the drawing board. The turbo v8 s6's look interesting, I LOVE the look of the A6/7, and even the Supercharged v6 is catching my attention - I would take a supercharger over a turbo any day (at similar power). Have you given thought to any of those cars? Would love to know your opinion. I know I am taking this thread off-topic, so please free to PM me instead of replying on the thread.

thanks.

Para82

I noticed one of the buttons on my NAV turned into a goop after sitting in the sun for a few hours. I actually was elated because this is similar to what happens to 360 Modenas except in those ALL of the buttons turn into a melting goop and the cost to fix/replace it is $5,000

I feel special knowing I have a goopy 360 like button in my 997S. Maybe this could be worth something ....1 of 1?

Go out and drive your cars people, stop worrying so much.

halo777

Any of the Audi's with the 3.0t engine in them are pretty awesome, from what I have heard. The C6 A6 with the 3.0t can be easily modded to achieve a 12.5s 1/4 mile. So, if you want something easy to mod, fast, looks great, and up to date with all the latest electronics, then go with the new C7 A6 with the 3.0t. Or, save some cash, and get a C6 3.0t (also available in Avant, which I personally love)

My preference has always been the larger displacement NA engines from Audi. I started with the v8s, and now all my focus is on the v10s. With the right modifcations, the v10 S6 is an incredible car. Really, a diamond in the rough. If you are prepared to do more extensive modding, then I would highly recommend one of the v10s.

Im kind of an Audi expert, so feel free to PM me if you need further advice.

Cheers!

pavster

Thank you for your insight! Looks like I have a great deal of research ahead of me, and I'll def be pinging you in the future.

DenholmReynholm

Just a quick update to this thread now that it's a year later and the car is back in action. While the wait was painful, the process overall has been great. The communication with Jake and his team along the way was top notch, and the car was returned to me ahead of schedule and exactly at the agreed-upon price. While I went with the 4.0L rebuild - I couldn't just go through all this just to get it back exactly as it was - I didn't tick any additional upgrade boxes so I got a nice boost in midrange torque but no dramatic performance changes. It's just what I expected, and is definitely a fun improvement.

Since it got back I've had a few minor issues that have turned out to be unrelated to the rebuild (I got to spend some quality time wrestling the coolant tank out of the engine bay due to intermittent coolant leaks) and Jake and his guys have been good about helping sort through diagnoses to make sure all was well with the engine.

Thanks to everyone who provided advice originally. Going with Jake's 4.0L build was the right decision for me.