I am going to buy a CPO Porsche from rusnak-westlake porsche, when I was asking if PPI is necessary sales guy said " A private party inspection is not necessary as this car has a CPO warrantly and has passed an 111 point inspection from our certified master Porsche techs." Is it true?

Thanks.

 

And is it possible that even if I buy a CPO porsche, I may need to change the tire immediately ? The thing is that without PPI how do I know the tire condition?

 

Definitely get a PPI by a third party. Here's the horror story of "Lozzy997" who bought a CPO'd GTS from Beverly Hills Porsche that should never have been certified for a number of reasons: https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-poor-car.html

Don't compromise on this. PCNA will do nothing for you if a dealer misrepresents a car and/or ignores the CPO guidelines.

 

Thank you for the prompt reply. I mean I will do PPI on cars sold by dealers even if they say it's certified. But rusnak-westlake porsche seems like a authorized Porsche dealership (I found it from the offical Porsche USA website), and I can even track this specific car I am going to buy listed on http://www.porsche.com/usa as 'Approved Certified Pre-owned Vehicles'.

I know your point applies to Porsche dealers who claim the car is certified but do I still need to do PPI on this one ?

 

..

 

Yes, you do.

 

Never buy a car without touching it and having a ppi done. Cpo doesn't cover exterior flaws.

 

In August, I bought my '12 GTS from that same dealer, CPO without a PPI. But I flew in to finalize the deal and personally inspect the car. All was as presented. I looked at other cars throughout the US, and, frankly, I would have been comfortable buying a CPO car without a PPI, but that's a personal opinion.

 

From the website of the Indy I used when I had my 996:

Pre-Purchase Inspection Thoughts
You’ve made the decision to buy a car and for one reason or another you’ve decided to purchase used rather than new (Maybe the horrific first year’s depreciation and sales tax adding up to $25k+ bothers you a little?) In Arizona and a few other states, all private party vehicle purchases are sales tax exempt so buying a used car from an individual is very tempting. Whether you buy from a dealer or private party, it is imperative that you protect yourself, even if the car is still under warranty.

One of the most significant concerns when looking at a car that’s still under factory warranty or not, is whether it’s been involved in an accident. Although using Carfax and other reporting agencies is a prudent step, they are not foolproof. There is always a lag between the time an insurance company pays out for a claim and when it finally reaches the report- sometimes up to 12 months. Also, in this culture of giant deductibles, it’s possible that a repair was paid out of pocket and not through insurance. In these cases there may be no record of paint or body work.

Our Pre-Purchase Inspection includes inspection of paint finish and whether there is evidence of collision damage. Rule of thumb is that if someone can tell that it’s been to a body shop, then it’s probably going to affect value (but not necessarily performance). It is amazing to see how many one, two, & three year old cars still under warranty, have had body damage or paint work. (Just visit any high end body shop- recently I saw a new Ferrari 458 Italia with the left door and rear quarter wiped out. It had 100 miles on the odometer!) This is obviously a double-edged sword as unfortunate things happen and when it’s time for us to sell our cars we certainly don’t want to take a bath just because we had our front bumper re-sprayed because of stone chips.

Besides body and interior esthetics we also look at evidence as to how the car has been driven. It is not unusual to find newer Porsches that show over revs in the computer (Probably from a missed shift or early downshift). Going beyond the redline 200-400 RPM (or more!) takes a toll on the engine and could adversely affect long term service. Again, even on a car that’s under factory warranty, you want to be careful that it hasn’t been abused. Our Autologic and Porsche software diagnostic test equipment enables us to track hours, misfires, mileage, and other significant events that happen in the life of Porsches, BMW’s, and Mini’s.

While it is extremely difficult to manipulate odometer readings on most late model vehicles, this is not the case for older cars. One model that we are especially sensitive to is the Porsche 993. These cars have enjoyed some very good appreciation over the last few years and we’re finding more and more anomalies with the mileage readings. We had a situation recently where a buyer had a 993 sent over from a North Scottsdale dealer for a PPI. Upon removing the speedo and verifying that the date stamp matched up with vehicle production date, we noticed that the bezel had been removed and reinstalled (poorly). That in itself is not a huge concern as these vehicles are notorious for breaking the plastic odometer drive gear. But if a speedometer has been worked on there should be proper documentation to go along with it. A proper paper trail is important to verify that there are no holes in the history and the mileage stated is accurate.

Note: The buyer in the above mentioned situation didn’t purchase the car because the dealer couldn’t/wouldn’t provide proper history. The sales manager stated that they knew nothing about the speedometer. (Later on we found out that they not only knew, they were the ones that sent it out for repair!) Again, it’s not unusual for odometer repair; just make sure it’s properly recorded.

For almost four decades Beck’s European has been delivering objective and accurate pre purchase inspections- to the point where some local dealers would rather steer you somewhere else. If a dealer won’t allow you to have a professional inspection done by the company of your choice, prior to purchasing… Run! As the buyer, you have every right to contract with a legitimate professional to properly evaluate and determine value. You might hear comments like “We’ve had bad experiences with them and won’t send our cars over there”. The reality is that they didn’t sell a car because of a bad report and they weren’t willing to remedy the situation. They would rather attack the messenger instead of taking responsibility for their problems and see to their customer’s best interest.

The other prevailing attitude that we encounter is the “it’s not a new car; it’s going to have problems” syndrome. The moment we start to “grade on a curve” because of a car’s age, is the moment where customers start questioning our integrity. We have one standard: “New or better than new (restored collector cars)”. Whether or not it’s new or used, 200 miles or 200,000 miles, our standard is consistent. Using this method there is no confusion; we simply leave room for discernment and objectivity by the buyer. A customer pays us to use our experience and expertise to report the facts. We don’t use a sliding scale and we don’t show favoritism toward sellers. Every vehicle should stand on its own merits and a comprehensive inspection should reflect that. Imagine if we used a “sliding scale” on a ’73 911RS? If we gave allowances for deficiencies just because the car is 40 years old, how would one know the difference between a $150,000 car and a $300,000 car?

 

You are spending tens of thousands of dollars on a car and trust a salesman (not that he may not be honest but he wants to sell the car and only has the information the service department gives him). A 111 point inspection is not the Golden Ticket. Why wouldn't you want to spend a few hundred extra dollars and have expert with no bias look over the car? If you just skim the Lozzy thread mentioned above that might persuade you to get a PPI.

But if you don't want to spend the money for a PPI and are looking for validation, well, it's your money and you can spend it however wisely or foolishly as you please.

 

I know this dealership. I almost bought a Carrera s from them. I inspected the car personally and it looked great however!!! I asked for warranty history and saw that the car had transmission issues. I even learned through their warranty history that is the reason why it was traded in.
I passed on the vehicle.
PPI only does so much get the warranty and customer pay history. They will give it to you ask them to blackout the name. In that regard I respect this dealer for giving everything I requested.

 

Btw I bought a Porsche in the end from champion because they gave me all service record etc on cpo Porsche. Any dealership that will open the records and not flinch is worth doing business with.
Needless to say, history is everything and ask them for pictures of all defects. Get it in email and have them fix anything you feel needs to close the deal. Get this all in writing. Before you sign the faxed or mailed bill of sale make sure it has a disclosure in it they fixed all concerns and that all defects present to customer.
Champion did this. The Porsche was perfectly represented. Only had two missing parts..plastic part near wipers and lug nut was missing hense brand new tires. They sent me the parts

So yes their is a way to buy a cpo without ppi. This is the only way I would buy a car unseen must be cpo and you must know what to ask / get it all in writing

 

No, it is not true.

What sometimes happens is for instance the tech finds the brakes not worn to the point the rotors are undersized or the warning light is on and he naturally doesn't mark anything down on the check list.

So the car gets bought. A few K miles later the brake warning light is on. The brakes are worn out.

A PPI would (should have) found this and then the buyer could have adjusted his offer accordingly to take into account the brakes would need doing soon.

I actually ran into this. A buyer bought a used car with a CPO and 2K miles later the brake light was on and the brakes needed doing. The new owner argued the CPO inspection was flawed -- it was not it is just how the process works -- but the dealer GM relented and covered the cost of the brakes.

In June of 2009 I bought an 03 Turbo with a CPO with no PPI other than that I did on my own. The CPO paperwork gave me a bunch of info on the car and while I knew it had been in under warranty for rattles these were taken care of years ago. I also got the printout of the overrev counters and engine run time hours. I saw nothing scary.

What I also got was the names of the dealers the car had been serviced, so I called them and found out what specific services the car had and when and satisfied myself the car had been well taken care of.

After carefully inspecting the car to ensure myself it was in tip top shape (it was in fact pristine), I bought the car (at around a $4K discount from the dealer's asking price I might add). This was in June of 2009 and the car had just 10K miles.

Now a good PPI (whether by a pro or a DIY PPI) is necessary but even the best has its limits.

After I bought the car and added some miles -- between 20K and 30K miles I can't recall exactly now -- the car developed some problems.

No PPI I know of has a crystal ball that can see that far out.

But that was one reason why I bought the car. It came with a 2 year, 100K mile warranty and the warranty covered the issues: broken passenger side radiator fan shaft, noisy idler roller bearings, leaking 6-speed (factory replaced the tranny!), bad clutch accumulator and clutch slave cylinder, broken shifter.

 

Everything you point out about Rusnak and the car they're selling applies to the car Lozzy bought from Beverly Hills Porsche and wishes he never did. Just my 2c but the cost of a PPI is a pittance relative to the cost of the car you're looking at. I think you'll be better served just paying it and be done with it rather than trying to come up with a reason why you shouldn't pay for it.

 

Yea I am not concerned about the money spent on PPI actually, it's the time to do that. I plan on flying there next weekend and see the car, then if everything is good I plan on driving it home (500 miles drive).I heard that indy typically doesn't do PPI during weekend. If I need PPI on it I will start making calls to make sure there is one can do it for me at the right time..