Cary_West

Hi all,

I have a question concerning the true market value of a 2005 C2S w/ approximately 20k, 6MT, full leather interior, Lapis Blue, Sport Chrono, good tires, bone stock.

The car was damaged in Hurricane Sandy and had water up to the carpets, but was cleaned quickly and does not seem to have mildew or leather issues. Lots of electronics have been replaced, some paint has been done and the engine is currently being rebuilt (with OE parts and a warranty) by a reputable shop here in new york that deals with a lot of p-cars.

The car was totalled by insurance (of course) and has a NYS salvage title. Assuming that the work has been done right (which I will verify with my own independent paid inspection), this is still a car with a decent amount of residual value.

I am not looking to buy the car (happy with my Boxster S), but I do need a clear-eyed idea of its value as I may take a lien against it to secure part of my investment in a business venture. The whole arrangement has been given my attorney's blessing, so now we just need to figure out what the cars true saleable value is.

I am going to look into a paid appraisal when the car is totally back together as well, but I need to get a ballpark figure now as we are in the planning stages.

So, aside from your opinions on the long-term reliability of a water damaged car, or those of salvage titled vehicles in general, what do you think the rough market value of a car like this is, should I have to sell it in June/July in the Northeast?

Thanks a bunch for your help,
Cary

mattyf

I'd say a clean undamaged one would be ~$40-45k

Knock off at least 25% from there. But personally I wouldn't value it over $30k . With that story it may be hard to sell.

wc11

"water up to the carpets" means the entire lower half of the chassis including engine sat in salt water.
Possibly for days or weeks. Wouldn't touch it, at any price.

iammulva

This was my initial thought too, but I'm a computer programmer not a mechanic or car (re)builder so I wasn't sure.

Iceter

Salvage title due to a total flood loss. That's about the worst combination for a modern, computer-intensive car. Valuation would be very difficult for any car, Porsche included. Automotive appraisals are, in my opinion, worthless. I have never had one done where the appraiser didn't ask me what I thought the car was worth and why I was getting it appraised, and then came in right at that number.

I think mattyf's discount rate of 25% off of stock is not conservative enough. For the purposes of taking the car as collateral, take whatever value you come up with and then discount it further to account for your time and trouble if and when you have to sell it. I'd be inclined to use a rough trade value and then discount it more like 50%.

NADA puts Rough Trade on that car in your region at $35,175. I guess it depends upon how much you need this deal to work but that car wouldn't be worth much to me.

PasPar2

I think if it was free, I still wouldnt take it.

Macster

Not sure I understand...

"I am not looking to buy the car (happy with my Boxster S), but I do need a clear-eyed idea of its value as I may take a lien against it to secure part of my investment in a business venture. The whole arrangement has been given my attorney's blessing, so now we just need to figure out what the cars true saleable value is."

If that flood damaged Porsche that has a salvage title is all you can get a lien against to secure your investment in a business venture it sounds to me like the business venture is not worth investing in. That is not much skin in the game.

And I wouldn't touch that car, even a lien against it, for all the tea in China.

user 72902

+1

I'd say impossible to sell.

iammulva

According to FAOSTAT in 2011, this would amount to 1.6 million tons. Of course, that number probably doesn't include the amount of tea imported into China which, I assume, is negligible.

Now I learned two things today. Don't buy a car salvage titled due to water and China does indeed have an impressive amount of tea.

Austex911

Water damage can manifest itself as electrical gremlins several months down the road, so I would pass on that car unless you got it for under $20k

alexb76

Is this for a lawsuit? or to buy the car? If to buy the car, skip 100%, if it's to determine a value for insurance purposes, or what not, then maybe 30K?

Iceter

Again with the reading comprehension, guys. He's got some business deal where he is using the car as collateral. He would like a realistic value so that he can determine how much of the deal is secured by the car in case things go south. He's not buying it and if things go as planned, he'll never own it.

I think we all agree that it's not something that we would buy at (almost) any price. He's just looking for a value or how to find one out.

Cary_West

+1 Iceter

This is for a deal that would normally be secured by equity in the business' inventory, but involves dealing with family members of one of the partners outside of U.S. jurisdiction, and my attorney has advised me to retain some sort of collateral for a portion of the investment. I simply need to know how much this car is worth to SELL to a buyer fully informed of its history, not to keep for a personal car. I just need to know what my true exposure is should everything go south and I have to take possession of the car to recoup part of my loss. It will influence the amount of upfront capital I am willing to put into a new business where the business assets are not themselves securable.

The work to restore the car and rebuild the engine is being done by Bradan Group in Long Island, NY and while they are expensive, they are also very good from what I've read on forums. Your reaction is valuable to me either way though, as it shows the attitudes of a certain portion of the used P-car market towards cars with less than pristine histories. This definitely informs me toward the difficulty of selling the car to forum guys, should I need to take it.

I am trying to put a number on what you've said, and it's probably something like $28k.

Thanks for the input, and let me know if you have any more thoughts.

theporscheguy

Honestly I would not value the car over 20K. There are way too many unknowns regardless of what Bradan finds up front.

Ynot

+1, the potential mechanical and electrical nightmare would keep me up at night, no thanks.