jrgordonsenior

Side Bar and FWIW.... I recently bought a 7S "Sandy flood car" just for the drivetrain. Took the motor apart, honed the cylinder walls, and put it back together. We ran it last Thurs & Fri at Willow Springs all day long without a hiccup. Dyno'd at 345 rwhp w/open exhaust, OEM flash on 100 octane. Plan on racing the motor weekend after next with NASA at WS...

gota911

Good point, but unfortunately, a recurring theme. However, you should cut Alex some slack. He is, after all, Canadian!

USMC_DS1

The question of value for a particular vehicle can only be answered by what a likely buyer is willing to pay for a car with this storied history. So far it seems that very few if any on our forum would be willing to take the risks associated with such a car, however, per jrgordonsenior's posting there does appear to be a market for a salvaged engine. So based on that you may be able to derive a value for the car from the engine alone. I believe that a clean rebuilt engine is typically valued at $17K-$20K? so a salvaged one might be worth half that to a race team? perhaps jrgordonsenior could help you assign a value for the engine.

Re the value of the entire car. Well, I would not be a buyer either so it has IMHO zero perceived value based on my prior research into flood salvaged vehicles. Shortly after hurricane Katrina I started seeing flood salvaged deals pop for BMW's and Porsche's in TX and LA. The prices made it certainly appealing to investigate so I asked my friend... an owner and expert mechanic of our local BMW Independent shop for his opinion. He indicated that he would not touch any of them if I were to buy one. Apparently, another Indy shop owner and friend of his in Louisiana had started recovering and reselling salvaged vehicles. All was good initially for his friend but after several months into the recovery business the man died. He had contracted a flesh eating bacteria from some minor cuts on his hands while working on one of the salvaged cars. Although I enjoy working on my cars and have considered a recovery project myself of a salvaged titled older "classic" Porsche... I would not consider a flood damaged vehicle of this type due to the associated health risks.

GL with the business venture and hopefully some of the various perspectives posted here will help you to valuate the vehicle in question. Since the car is collateral for your partner in this business venture... and should things not workout as hoped and you gain possession of the car. Whatever you do... don't take ownership of it for personal use. Because it's a Porsche and 911 that may be a tempting consideration. Instead just get rid of it for whatever value you can get out of it.

BED997

What could you part it out for from the parts above the waterline? That's the value. Maybe $10k? Can you sell a salvage car at auction? Maybe an auction co would tell you value.

WindyCityC2S

To me, the bottom line is what can you get if the business fails and you need to repay the bank. I would not feel comfortable borrowing more than $12 to $14K against that car.

I would not buy that car, but I am sure some eager teenager/college grad would take the chance at mid teens to own a 997.

wisky

Figured I would chime in. I am an auto wholesaler and deal with car values every day.

If the car was clean title clean carfax I would estimate it to be a $46000 - $48000 retail car, with a wholesale value of $39,000 - $41500.

I hit cars at 30% when rebuilt / salvage history, 35% when rebuilt flood salvage history, and 50% when salvage pending salvage inspection.

FWIW, assuming the car will pass NYS Salvage inspection no problem and be issued a rebuilt title, you should be comfortable valuing the car at $25k. I would personally buy it for $25k all day long assuming the car is in good operating condition.

Best of luck!


Manheim data for 05 C2S - some of these may have accidents on carfax - but all should be clean title.

03/06/13 PA Regular $41,750 18,389 Avg SILVER 6G M Yes
12/14/12 PA Regular $41,750 20,676 Avg BLUE 6G 6 Yes
04/18/13 PALM BCH Regular $39,100 42,164 Avg BLACK 6GT A Yes
01/10/13 RIVRSIDE Regular $35,500 51,058 Avg SILVER 6GT 6 Yes
04/12/13 PA Regular $33,900 63,241 Avg SILVER 6G A Yes
12/05/12 SF BAY Regular $25,400 99,854 Below SILVER 6GT M Yes

mattyf

You guys keep forgetting it has a fresh rebuilt engine. That alone is worth ~$15k.

chris.hanle

I knew there was someone who knows the value of these type of cars. I figured that most of the rennlisters care too much about cars and want to keep them in very good condition (myself included) to even think about buying a flood car. These cars will never be in very good condition and are always suspect to failure. I know there is a value probably not the best place for multiple estimations on value of such cars. But wisky sounds knowledgeable and I would trust his/her value.

wisky

Thanks!

Macster

Planning for when things going right is easy.

Planning for when things go wrong is harder.

There is the chance the OP will own the car and even if he does not retain ownership to recoup his investment he has to sell the car.

A car with a salvage title.

And albeit a true story a goofy story on top of that.

And the car can only lose valve as time goes by.

I still say accepting this car as any collateral for any reason is ill-advised.

Why can't the car be sold now and the money applied to the business venture? In the past to finance business ventures for myself I sold vehicles and downgraded to raise cash and lower my cost of living.

MJBird993

I'm thinking in terms of not what it's "worth" but what you can actually get for it, say on an eBay auction, if you had to sell it to cover your investment. With that in mind, I'm going to say $15K. For a longer time frame (say two months) then you might get as much as $20K for it.

Best of luck in the venture!

mander

He would in essence be buying it if the deal goes south. 20K at best but I would only do that if I REALLY had faith in the deal.

wisky

$15k?!?! That absurd. This car would sell OVER $20k on eBay first time around in a no reserve auction. I would bet $1000 on it, and I can say that safely because I know many other people in the business who would write a check at $20k - $25k for a car like this; and we would all be bidding against each other.

OP, out of curiosity - are you putting a lien against this car in order to provide someone (/a business) capital? I purchased a Lambo Gallardo a few months ago from a venture capitalist who foreclosed on a bad deal, the Lambo was one of the assets of the company that took out a loan. Seems like the same situation.

Para82

I would pay up to 5k for this one...

I'm sure others would pay more. I can't imagine handing over 20-30k for a flood car though.

iammulva

That may be true, but it's still a risk and one that the OP is taking instead of something more liquid and/or more easily valued (i.e. for which there exists a known market). Because of this risk, OP is justified in discounting what one might expect to be a "fair value" today because, if/when he ends up taking possession of the vehicle and wants to sell it he cannot be certain there will be a market.

Secondly, not sure how far in the future OP's chance of taking possession could be realized, but there is also a supply/demand factor. As time goes on, there may be more of these motors available as more new cars are purchased and current cars age. This may drive the price down.

When I watch Pawn Stars I see people trying to sell things to the owner for $X after an appraiser says it's worth $X. The owner usually tells them - you want $X for it? Open your own store.

While the motor likely does not have zero value, the OP assumes the risk of an uncertain market (e.g. potentially flooded market and/or potentially no buyers) and somewhat illiquid asset (i.e. not as easy to get rid of as plane tickets to Hawaii on Craigslist). Of course these risks may be small, but the bottom line is that the OP is the one assuming them.