Hi folks

C2s 2005 post IMS updates - just did oil change (after just purchasing car, dealers have been doing lonnnggg service intervals, this one 10000km). Really really easy but I cut the filter up and found a few bits of debris in there. All non-ferrous and mostly small slivers of alloy, with one (only) "pepper corn-ish" size of a bit of alloy that looked like it has been scuffed on something (or squeezed in the oil pump)?
The longer bits of slivers - where would that come from at this age and stage 50000km? Would bore scoring rip off small slivers like that?

Obviously I gathered all the larger bits up for the photo. Lots more very small cracked pepper size of bits too small to pick up with tweezers.





Cheers all

Matt
_________________
2005 C2S aero kit, Post IMS updates?, short shift, PSE, Chrono Plus, Bose, Sports adaptive seats, Full Black leather with ALum dials surround.

 

What do you mean by 'post IMS updates'? You have a car with the updated/larger IMS? Are you sure about that?

I'm not the most knowledgeable on this list but that doesn't look right. Those bits are large. Maybe someone else will chime in.

 

Looks like the filter is doing its job.

 

I would ask my dealer to interpret significance of the debris, get an expert opinion, if you suspect this could be the prelude to IMS failure. Ugh

 

First time I pulled my filter apart (I had just gotten it, 05 base car), it had 25K miles and I just changed the oil to be safe, it had 10-15 thin, non ferrous (aluminum?) little flakes in the filter. NO CHUNKS tho. I think that, although these are small, I'd want the opinion of a dealer or trusted tech on the more
3-D pieces. Like one previous poster said, are you saying that you actually had the updated IMS bearing installed or that you think you have a larger, updated factory bearing?

 

Did you send the oil out for analysis? I would do that as well.

 

Yes, after a bit of research it would seem my engine number is after the last IMS update (68513627)

Matt

 

Good idea, just found a place down here in NZ that does it!

I'm really just trying to get a feel of that amount of debris being normal after 10KM service (car at 51000KM), or if there shouldn't be anything at all. Again as I said all non-ferrous so surely it won't be IMS bearing surfaces?

Matt

 

1st thanks for sharing. I'm no expert on what those particles might be but as a sounding board I have 57K+(92KM+) miles on my '08 C2S. I do my own oil changes every 3K miles and/or 4-5 months which ever comes 1st. Like you... I always cut and inspect my oil filters but have yet to notice any particles like these... any particles for that matter. Sounds like you're doing all the right things though - following up with a tech at the p-dealer, oil analysis, and inspecting the oil filters after each change. Perhaps consider more frequent oil changes so that you can catch any serious issues(larger particles) sooner vs. later... or even the IMS Guardian. http://www.rabyenginedevelopment.com/IMS_GUARDIAN.html BTW, the device monitors EVERY ferromagnetic component within the engine, not just the IMS. No affiliation but I have considered the same device myself.

Subscribing as I would be interested in the root cause of those particles, the outcome of the oil analysis, and confirmation re which bearing type you have. GL and let us know the outcome.

 

Did a deeper dive into my filter tonight ('05 early car, 14k, oil changes well below 3k) and found a few slivers. Previously I thought it would have to be really big pieces. Got me concerned now...

 

Signs of IMS failure are said to be the bigger peices. I'm confused whether OP stated he has a car with the porsche improved IMS or not.

If I was in this situation, I'd get a new IMS if the car has the older design as I intend to keep the Pcar for a long time. If its the new IMS, I would go another 1K and take the oil out and cut the filter and inspect again, and get a oil test. I'd reuse the oil if there are no issues. It would be for peace of mind only, as there little one can do with the revised IMS, short of an engine tear down to get at the IMS. As USMC DS1 noted, I'd would increase the oil change intervals. Not sure whether I'd ever do this, but you could get a warranty.

 

As far as my IMS goes, yes from all research I've done my engine number is (far) beyond the serial number changeover listed both here and at the UK forum. But, hey, do I really know? Of course not.
Don't forget this oil change was done at 10000km, and over quite a long time period as well. No mayo in the filler tube though so it's obviously been run for longer trips. Or cleaned out well...

I can't do oil analysis as I dumped the oil - didn't know about that when I was doing the change!

I'm probably going to dump the filter in 1-2kKM and have another look at it. The car has a Porsche approved used car warranty, and to be honest what is the dealer going to do anyway if I mention it? Ah, bring it up to us sir and your chequebook also..

Surely any failure of the IMS will be letting FERROUS particles into the filter right, not the alloy I'm seeing?

Matt

 

Assume your engine had the serial number starting in m97 and the right digits for the change over

Not much to do but monitor the filter and enjoy the car. Guess alot revised ims owners don't checking the filter so not much feedback I will next time

Good luck

 

Non ferrous metal (aluminum) is usually left over debris from the machining process when the engine was first built and can show up in small quantites every now and then for a long time. I get a little bit even after 130k miles and 13 years. I wouldn't worry about it but I would change the oil more frequently.

 

Sounds about what I would do.

I've been replacing / inspecting my oil & filter 2/year for last 3 years over ~25 Tkm and so far have not experienced any debris at all. Not sure if that helps you.
My car is 2005 with last non-replaceable incarnation of IMS bearing, just like yours.
I run the best possible oil I can buy, change it spring & fall regardless of km's and hope for the best. Did to date two UOA's both came all right. Mobil 1 TDT was ok, Motul X-Cess was actually great.
Gentle warm ups, longer trips, full RPM's (< 6,800RPM's no point going higher) once fully warmed up.
Cheers,
=L=