LastMezger

What a weekend! An extended test drive in a 991 C2 7MT, a 2008 GT3RS and my 997 C2 6MT.

A bit of back story...
I bought the 997 last summer (my third 911) because I was under the impression that the Porsche car seat actually fit in the back of a, you know, Porsche. Long story short...we were never able to get it secure enough for our tastes.

I had a weekend test drive of a 991 C2S PDK a few months ago and we got the car seat in but, frankly, there's barely any room for the front passenger. Not ideal.

All that said I'm a bit betwix and between about what to do. Hence the GT3RS test drive...

A bit about me...
Just so you have some idea where I'm coming from I thought I should share a bit about myself. I'm a car guy and I've only ever owned performance cars except for the recent need for a family car...a Range Rover. I like cars with a single purpose as opposed to a dual nature. Hence why I didn't love the 991S. Sure it's luxurious and yes it can go all crazy but I'd rather a car was what it was. JMHO and that's the way I like it.

Regarding my perspective on cars and brands I don't pull any punches. I was a car reviewer and writer for several years and I've been lucky enough to drive everything from the Daewoo Lanos to two versions of the Bugatti Veyron...at over 320km/h no less. I've had the good fortune to drive racetracks around the world and receive instruction from Hurley Haywood and the like. It was a great run! I don't really care about brands...it's all about the drive, the style and the experience for me. The word Porsche means nothing to me...you could put a Hyundai badge on a 911 and I'd still love it.

But the time came to do something different career wise which made it possible to pursue ownership of the cars I've lusted after my whole life. Finding ones I'm happy with is proving harder than I thought...

The 991 C2 7MT
If you'd asked me before I drover it I would have told you this was the version I'd get. Base car, manual, sport chassis, not a ton of options...definitely no sunroof (I'm 6'5"). Very much like the 997 in terms of spec.

My very firm impression after a short drive, however, was that the car simply isn't that quick. I mean it's plenty quick relative to a Camry or something but doesn't feel any quicker tan the 997 C2 (less torque for sure). It's also very refined, which is nice, but it's also somewhat anodyne. The 20-inch Pirellis on the test car were very quiet.

Objectively the handling, however, is simply on another level. The 991 turns-in more like a mid-engined car (I'd say they were benchmarking the R8 in this regard as well as for ride comfort). There is so much front end bite it is, frankly, very un-911-like.

I can't say I love the Porsche Torque Vectoring differential. It's nothing like the experience of a proper limited-slip and though it might improve traction and forward motion, the tugging sensation it generates is not something I liked. A good old LSD that lets you control a nice tail out slide without fighting you is much more fun. Too bad everyone is so obsessed with Nurburgring lap times...

My 997 has the non-leather interior which, honestly, looks like crap. Especially compared to the lovely grain of the 991's non-leather dash. So nice in fact I'd skip the full leather interior and save the $5K (in Canada).

The car I was driving did not have the sport exhaust (the C2S a few months ago did). The non-sport exhaust car had tons of intake sounds thanks to the "sound symposer". It seemed a bit artificial to me (it's not...just intake sound piped into the cabin unlike the new M5's bull**** synthesized exhaust through the stereo). The sport exhaust, on the other hand, is flat out rude. The pops and gurgles are almost too much. It would be a tough choice. Something in between would suit me better.

After three days I came to the conclusion that if I was in the market to replace my 997 then I'd definitely go with the 991. For now, however, there's nothing about it that would lead me to prematurely switch. That and the fact there will be the inevitable onslaught on variations to consider and the new GT cars...which I think will be epic.

The GT3RS
Without a word of a lie I was hooked after driving 100 feet. The shifter, the tautness of the chassis and the sound are all perfectly judged!

Incredibly the GT3RS was more civilized than I'd imagined it would be. I've driven the 2010 GT3 and the 996 GT3 (an insane animal!) before but not the .1 RS and it was surprisingly civil. Yes you can hear some rattling from the transmission and there's plenty of tire noise on the highway (very worn tires though so new MPSS would fix that I'd imagine) but the ride was rice and tight, the steering pin point direct and the brakes simply monstrous. Could I drive it everyday? Absolutely...and remember I like comfortable cars (aforementioned RR).

I also found the seats in the RS more comfortable than in the 991 but I'm an outlier in that regard and most people will be fine.

This direction, however, requires abandoning the dream of the family fun car. Maybe it becomes a father and son exercise and gives mom some much needed respite from the boys?

Back in my 997
Last time I drove the 991 and hopped back in the 997 I found my car as refreshing and every bit as gratifying as I always had. This time? Honestly, it felt old. I went directly from the 991 to the 997 and retraced the same drive and the 997 simply felt less dialed in, less composed but definitely had more torque and a nicer engine sound. That said, the 991 had only 1800km on it and the 997 has 80,000km so it's understandable that the 991 engine has some breaking in to do.

The 997 cabin (despite being rather low rent) is airy and open whereas the 997's was much more cockpit-like. Better visibility in the 997 but the 991 is undeniably more comfortable. This is the biggest change in 911 interiors in the car's history.

So now what?
That's a tough one. Of the three I like the RS the best by far. It's a thrill. Too bad about the boy racer rear seat delete...

I'm going to wait and see what the rest of the 991 lineup looks like, however, and then decide what to do. I know I'll own an RS at some point but now might not be the right time.

Or I might just say Fu#! it and get it!

triode

Your gut reaction to the RS is no surprise to me. After almost 3 years in my car, every single drive - no matter how otherwise mundane (grocery run, drugstore, etc.) - is an event. If you don't get the RS (or another GT3), you will torture yourself with "what ifs" in the coming years...

Palmbeacher

All in all, a most reasonably-worded analysis. The marketing geniuses, through the engineers who dance at the ends of their strings, have made car ownership an exquisitely subjective experience, thus it is impossible for anyone to review or discuss any automobile with objectivity, no matter how much he protests to the contrary.

Whilst I have been more forthcoming in describing the 991's styling and engineering gaffes, your final assessment mirrors my own: that the 991 is a fine car, but does not engender any immediate desire to own one in preference to my 997.

My comparison is not made versus a new 997.2, but rather versus a 997 which cost me all of $46K three years ago, is still worth (according to KBB at least) nearly $40K, and at this point is depreciating rather more slowly. For me to pay $95K for a similarly-equipped new 991 and suffer the inevitable new-car depreciation over the next three years, it would have to have knocked my socks off. To the contrary, its "features" (electric steering, piped-in sound, Panamera-esque console, smaller-displacement standard engine, superfluous gear in the MT, pressbutton emergency brake, extensive rear badging et al) impacted me negatively.

In five years, when my 997's warranty will expire and the car will be twelve years old, I may be looking at a replacement. Will that be a second-hand 991? At this time I can't rule it out completely, but buying one certainly is not the "given" that I would have imagined prior to seeing and driving it.

alexb76

Great review... I am also in the same position, and definitely next up would be a GT3 variant!

fast1

My comparison is not made versus a new 997.2, but rather versus a 997 which cost me all of $46K three years ago, is still worth (according to KBB at least) nearly $40K,

KBB price is virtually worthless. If you want to determine the actual wholesale price of your car, find out what your model has been selling for at nearby auctions. That's the baseline price that any dealer should give you. You can then bump it up around 10% if you want to retail your car.

Palmbeacher

....which as it turns out happens to be within $100 of the KBB price, which is why I quoted it. But as I don't doubt you fancy yourself an expert on everything, I am a bit confused as to which shoe goes on which foot

Spokane5150

I think this comment is overly critical to the point that Palm was making. I think he was making the point about how much you lose when buying new 911 compared to buying used. He was making clear his personal buying decision based on his perceived value proposition.

Black Book or MMR only give you averages and examples of vehicles sold that week or month. With so few Porsche's actually going through Auction it can be difficult to find direct comparisons. It's almost like doing an appraisal on a house; it can be subjective. I like how KBB and Edmonds help you add options and come up with a price. I just did my car on Edmonds and it's pretty accurate.

Wholesale prices are more important for mainstream cars where 10's of thousands are sold annually. Cadillac is a good example: You can lose half your value in 2 years. Or maybe a Chevy Truck where 4 years ago the gas price sky rocketed and GM was overstocked and giving huge discounts greatly effecting the wholesale prices. The aforementioned vehicles have like 4 different models so the pricing is less subjective and easy to get a current wholesale or retail value. Porsche 911's can have $3-30k in options so it's a little more difficult.

If you ever need help with wholesale prices let me know.

DV

Spokane5150

Really Cool Pictures and I liked your critique of each vehicle. I wish I could afford to buy a GT3RS....maybe in another 5-years. Make sure your editor fixes some of those misspelled words. LOL

Vancouver-BC

Great post. I've had the same car (without the PASM) for a 1 year a half. I really enjoy it, but am also leaning towards a GT3 or GT3RS in the not-to-distant future. I don't need a DD and the kids are pretty much gone, so now I can truly indulge and get something that will provide the fix for my performance car addiction.

sclemmons

I, too, would have picked the GT3RS out of that lineup. Sorry about the carseat, but I bet you can make it work anchoring to the roll cage mounts. Might take some doing, but I would try it.

LastMezger

In my defense I wrote it from my iPhone sick as **** in bed. Fixed though;-)

I'm not sure bolting my only son to the roll cage is going to work for us. I admire your motoring spirit though! ;-)

Jaan

I'm a bit "oscillated" here. What exactly do you mean by intake sounds (symposer) through the cabin? How did the M5 play into this synthesized output? Personally, I detest such outputs. The skyline coupes (Infiniti) G's are pretty obvious in their exhaust note. I rode in the Infiniti SUV and hated it. The ride was horrible, exhaust note was synthetic. This was my first experience with such understanding. The vehicle offered absolutely no performance also.

Pretty honest review there. You sound like Clarkson also. He's 6'5 as well

boolala

Good, honest review and refreshingly free of the bull**** "it's too big, it's too luxurious, there are too many letters on the rear deckild" nonsense.

Thanks for providing an objective, balanced, worthwhile appraisal of these cars amidst the sea of idiocy we have been treated to up to now.

LastMezger

From what I understand the "Sound Symposer" is a pipe from the 991's intake track that is routed into the back of the cabin. Basically, on the non-sport exhaust car I drove, it gives you a tremendous about of intake noise.

On the sport exhaust equipped car the intake noise was overwhelmed by the barking and back-popping of the exhaust.

You really need to try it both ways to decide what floats your boat.

The BMW M5 uses it's stereo system's speakers to pipe exhaust sound into the cabin.

Both the Sound Symposer and the M5's system sound synthetic to me...though the former isn't and the latter is.

Palmbeacher

You're quite the only one attempting to drown this thread that particular body of water. Even the OP himself I daresay would be the first to agree that his appraisal is, by definition, subjective. If you are asserting that the 991 is not bigger than the 997, I refer you to Porsche's official measurements. If you are asserting that the 991 is not more oriented toward luxury and comfort than the 997, I refer you to the OP's remarks regarding the 991: And as to the lettering on the rear deck-lid, well, if you find nothing unaesthetic about it then you must think the window sticker is a work of art, LOL.