yemenmocha

BMW's M division has diluted and arguably ruined the M reputation with the last M3 and the M versions of their two SUV's. They went the direction of heavier & more hp. Also less raw and more GT. New versions coming out will no longer have the high revving N/A engines either - another signature of M cars of the past.

It is not implausible that Porsche could do something similar with their primary goal of making more bucks. I think some Porsche enthusiasts are a little full of themselves to assume that Porsche will aim at pleasing the longterm enthusiasts over a larger pool of people who just happen to have the bucks to buy the lastest/greatest.

Alan Smithee

I agree. Macan, Pajun, Cayenne and Panamera diesel, etc. I am sure they will all be great sedans/SUVs, and will sell in large numbers. But you have to admit that they have sold out the brand.

alexb76

I agree, it is what it is... if in the market today, I'd buy a GTS or GT3, in a few yrs, if I must buy a Porsche and have no alternative, I might have to bite the bullet, or just find a nice used GTS/GT3.

However, to suggest Porsche CANNOT make a mistake, and does not ever get it wrong is just completely ignoring the history, you forgot 996, 944, right? Also, you can never rely on the past to predict future. I strongly believe today's Porsche is just NOT the same company as it once was, even casual observers, including family and friends who have no bone in the Porsche brand, have commented that Porsche has been watered down as they now make a slew of cars including SUV, 4 door, and Cross overs. Do you think that in 20yrs, they got the same brand recognition as a primary sports car manufacturer as today? I do not think so... they probably will be financially successful, but the brand is just not the same, and their focus is just not the same, and that *might* lead to their demise. My 0.02.

Mike in CA

Whether we like it or not, an argument could also be made that in today's market, without them, the brand would be dead or irrelevant.....

Alan Smithee

I'd say just the opposite - the upcoming Macan and Pajun are being developed purely for corporate greed by exploiting the brand. Porsche as a brand is quickly becoming dead and irrelevant WITH them.

Mike in CA

That's a surprise. Seriously, I was referring more to the Cayenne, without which Porsche might be in the dumpster already. I might also suggest there is a difference between becoming dead in the sense of "dead to enthusiasts" (which BTW I don't think has happened or is likely to), and "dead to the world" as in out of business or without sufficient capital to develop new models, engage in racing, go to LeMans again, etc. Anyone who thinks Porsche could have sustained themselves as a stand alone entity only by selling sports cars in today's automotive market is simply not being realistic. And now that VW controls them, of course they are exploiting the brand. Does that surprise anyone? Isn't capitalism and making money what we all signed up for? Just be thankful that for the foreseeable future Porsche is still developing interesting cars even if they have had to make concessions to the modern world. The days of the bare bones, hairy chested, niche market sports car are pretty much gone. Sad in some ways, but the world is changed, and that's just the way it is.

Zeus993

1+ Me too!

alexb76

+1... Porsche brand has clearly been dilluted over the past few years. As I said earlier, even casual observers (family, friends, colleagues) have commented that Porsche just doesn't stand for what it used to stand for, with all the new 4-doors, SUVs, and Cross overs!

Again, financially they'd be fine in the short-medium term, but in the long term Porsche doesn't stand for what it used to be known for.

alexb76

Not entirely true. When in Porsche museum, there was a quote and voice-over (via headphones) on top of first Boxster made, and the Porsche head at the time was quoted "yes, this car is not truly reflecting our heritage (or something to that effect), but necessary for financial success".

What saved Porsche was Toyota method of lean manufacturing (now Porsche consults other companies on Lean principals - including ours), and Boxster (while now Boxster sales are in the dump cause they're too close to 911 pricing). They had a few very unsuccessful cars before those cars. Cayenne definitely contributed to more profits, but Porsche would have been successful as a smaller sports car manufacturer regardless. Look at Lambo, Ferrari, etc... they are a lot more $$, but at much lower volume.

alexb76

LOL... that IS the silver lining!

JD911

There's a new 911?

am722

All I can say is that when the 997.1 was revealed, I couldn't wait until they made it to the dealership and bought one of the early ones they received.

When the 997.2 was revealed, I spent hours poring over the configurator and ordered one as soon as I could get an allocation.

When the 991 was revealed, I started wondering what else was out there. I guess I'm going to move into a CPO'd 997 GT3, but after that, I have no idea. I know I won't be getting a 991. And I haven't even driven one. All it took was seeing the front fascia and the rear lights.

Mike in CA

It's very, very, hard for me to believe that Porsche would say the part about the Boxster not being consistent with their heritage as it has been repeatedly touted as a descendant of the 550 Spyder ever since it was first introduced. I think something was lost in translation....

Although streamlined manufacturing processes contributed to the turnaround, ultimately Porsche felt their business had to grow to succeed and that wasn't going to happen just with purist sports cars. I think it's curious that in an environment where so many people are negative about government interference in business, that we as private citiizens think we know best what a private company should do, especially when they have been so profitable doing it their way.

Yes, look at Ferrrari and Lambo. Do you see any cars from them that just reasonably affluent people can afford? Is that really the example you want to see Porsche follow? Besides, Ferrari has been backstopped by Fiat for over 40 years. Until very recently Porsche was on their own. Their business models have been very different and Porsche has had to take a different path to success.

neanicu

Yeah,look at Ferrari and Lamborghini with the AWD FF(their trait,right?!) and the SUV concept that they've presented already,production is just a step away!
Porsche does not care and shouldn't care about 100 so called ' purists '. It's business! Get it already! They would've been Saab by now if it wasn't for the Cayenne and Panamera. They'll still give you the GT's and RS's,what's the big deal?!
Just by that comment that the 991 feels like a Lexus you know right away it was intended to start this debate.
OP,did you have a bottle of Grey Goose before you test drove the 991?

hot nikon

Find a late build 2012 C2S for around $90k or less and that's Cayman S/R territory.
There is a very big diff in performance between the 2012 997/2 C2S and the Cayman's 320-330 hp. The R is around $87k, so...

When Porsche came out with the Panamera, I thought "Great, they'll be able to leave the 911 alone". Foolish me. The Cayenne is their big seller, 2/1 v. the 911.

Porsche is also looking at ALL of the world markets (think Asia), not just the US.

Really glad I have a 997/2 C2S, looking hard at a TT for this reason. You can guess what the new 991 Turbo will have for an msrp . My guess is way north of $150k.

Like a bunch.