Excellence Magazine Gets Some Sack: 997 More Involving Than 991
05-07-2012, 08:28 PM
#121
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Every day twice a day I pass by Champion Porsche, which bills itself as the country's biggest exclusive Porsche dealership. Every day twice a day I see the same lots of 991 sitting there unmoving. Have not seen a single 991 thus far on the road or parked except at the dealer. Neither have any of my other Porschephile colleagues or acquaintances. It isn't as if it's "too early in the season", either, not here in S. Florida. Interpret that whichever way you want.
Anyone in medicine knows how easily data and stats can be framed to support an erroneous conclusion. I wouldn't be surprised if "sales are way up" in respect to the latter half of 2011...when everyone knew the aging 997 was about to be replaced. As well, sales of all cars is up. I will be curious to see how first-year sales of the 991 compare to first-year sales of the 997. That will be a much more meaningful expression of whether or not the 991 is a success. Even then, I would be curious to know, of those 1st-year 991 sales, how many are repeat sales, and how many represent newcomers to the brand.
I admit that prior to the 997, whilst I always admired Porsche, I never wanted to own one. I felt the handling was too skittish, the ride too punishing, and the air-con inadequate to make it a pleasant DD for me. I accept being branded a dilettante by 964/993 purists. Quite probably there are those who felt the 997 wasn't yet tame or cushy enough, and the 991 now suits them.
Someone likened it to the story of Goldilocks, and it's quite appropriate. For me the 997 is "just right".
Anyone in medicine knows how easily data and stats can be framed to support an erroneous conclusion. I wouldn't be surprised if "sales are way up" in respect to the latter half of 2011...when everyone knew the aging 997 was about to be replaced. As well, sales of all cars is up. I will be curious to see how first-year sales of the 991 compare to first-year sales of the 997. That will be a much more meaningful expression of whether or not the 991 is a success. Even then, I would be curious to know, of those 1st-year 991 sales, how many are repeat sales, and how many represent newcomers to the brand.
I admit that prior to the 997, whilst I always admired Porsche, I never wanted to own one. I felt the handling was too skittish, the ride too punishing, and the air-con inadequate to make it a pleasant DD for me. I accept being branded a dilettante by 964/993 purists. Quite probably there are those who felt the 997 wasn't yet tame or cushy enough, and the 991 now suits them.
Someone likened it to the story of Goldilocks, and it's quite appropriate. For me the 997 is "just right".
Every day I drive by a big parking lot where I heard lots of enthusiasts park their cars. Every day, THREE times a day, I check for red 991s and I have seen a single one. None of my friends have seen any either. I live in a big city in the Midwest.
Therefore, Porsche is having a real hard time selling red 991s in the Midwest. Especially to enthusiasts.
05-07-2012, 08:55 PM
#122
Wow! That is some news on what the dealers are willing to pay Betternotbigger on trade for his 9 month old GTS!
I have been reading Rennlist for a while and finally joined today so I could post. I was quite surprised when I read his posting.
Last weekend I went to a tech session at the local dealer and had an opportunity to drive the new 991S with the PDK. It is definately much different than my '12 GTS with stick that I bought at the same time as Betternotbigger. Out of curiousity, I had the dealer give me a price on my GTS for trade.
To my point; In the months I have been able to drive (I don't drive it in the winter), I have put only 4200 miles on the GTS. Needless to say, I was a little surprised when I found they would only give me $85,000; $26,000 less than I paid on trade. I had thought I was pretty close when I depreciated it $18,000 over the last 9 months in my own calculations. But apparently I was off by almost $900/month.
I don't know if they were fishing or if $85,000 is a realistic price in my area. I'd be curious what others in the US are seeing for values on a 9 month old GTS. Had they given me a price like you are seeing, I might have pulled the trigger on the new one (even though my GTS is fantastic); I really liked the PDK.
I have been reading Rennlist for a while and finally joined today so I could post. I was quite surprised when I read his posting.
Last weekend I went to a tech session at the local dealer and had an opportunity to drive the new 991S with the PDK. It is definately much different than my '12 GTS with stick that I bought at the same time as Betternotbigger. Out of curiousity, I had the dealer give me a price on my GTS for trade.
To my point; In the months I have been able to drive (I don't drive it in the winter), I have put only 4200 miles on the GTS. Needless to say, I was a little surprised when I found they would only give me $85,000; $26,000 less than I paid on trade. I had thought I was pretty close when I depreciated it $18,000 over the last 9 months in my own calculations. But apparently I was off by almost $900/month.
I don't know if they were fishing or if $85,000 is a realistic price in my area. I'd be curious what others in the US are seeing for values on a 9 month old GTS. Had they given me a price like you are seeing, I might have pulled the trigger on the new one (even though my GTS is fantastic); I really liked the PDK.
05-07-2012, 09:04 PM
#123
I don't know...I've read that some don't consider the 991 a 911, that if it has PDK you're a "woman or an idiot", that it doesn't look like a 911, that if you don't have rattles or sloppy steering it's not a 911, and it goes on and on.
I came from a couple of 997's to a 991 and after reading all the negatives posts thought I made a big mistake. Now, after 2700 miles I'm convinced that if I had a 997 and a 991 in my garage, the 991 would be the one I would more than likely pick to drive. I agree with many, and understand all, of the comments made by the purists, except the one where they state that the 991 doesn't look like a 911. Here’s mine. I think it looks like a 911….
I came from a couple of 997's to a 991 and after reading all the negatives posts thought I made a big mistake. Now, after 2700 miles I'm convinced that if I had a 997 and a 991 in my garage, the 991 would be the one I would more than likely pick to drive. I agree with many, and understand all, of the comments made by the purists, except the one where they state that the 991 doesn't look like a 911. Here’s mine. I think it looks like a 911….
05-07-2012, 10:22 PM
#126
Nordschleife Master
I don't know...I've read that some don't consider the 991 a 911, that if it has PDK you're a "woman or an idiot", that it doesn't look like a 911, that if you don't have rattles or sloppy steering it's not a 911, and it goes on and on.
I came from a couple of 997's to a 991 and after reading all the negatives posts thought I made a big mistake. Now, after 2700 miles I'm convinced that if I had a 997 and a 991 in my garage, the 991 would be the one I would more than likely pick to drive. I agree with many, and understand all, of the comments made by the purists, except the one where they state that the 991 doesn't look like a 911. Here’s mine. I think it looks like a 911….
I came from a couple of 997's to a 991 and after reading all the negatives posts thought I made a big mistake. Now, after 2700 miles I'm convinced that if I had a 997 and a 991 in my garage, the 991 would be the one I would more than likely pick to drive. I agree with many, and understand all, of the comments made by the purists, except the one where they state that the 991 doesn't look like a 911. Here’s mine. I think it looks like a 911….
05-07-2012, 10:30 PM
#127
Instructor
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05-08-2012, 12:46 AM
#128
Drifting
Less is more
That's a mouthful. I'm trying to picture what it would look like when they have "Porsche 911 Carrera S Turbo" badged across the back. A school teacher would feel compelled to add a punctuation mark to complete the sentence structure. Some marketing genius must have figured out that a paraphrase was necessary back there to remind us that it's a Porsche and a 911 and a Carrera and so on... since they lifted the rear end of an Asston. What’s that saying... “imitation is the best form of flattery.” The folks at AM must be LOL. I had hoped for better from Porsche. And I truly hope that the people at Porsche eventually get back to the principles which have already made the 911 the iconic benchmark for others to pursue... not the other way around. Less is more.
05-08-2012, 02:37 AM
#130
Nordschleife Master
05-08-2012, 06:16 AM
#131
Rennlist Member
Seriously, if you de-badged the Jag, the 991, the AM (I'll even throw in the Maserati) and parked them end to end they would all look like they could have come from the same company.
05-08-2012, 10:43 AM
#134
I’m in the fashion business and over the years have learned that we all can perceive color and shape differently. For example, I don’t see such a huge difference between side-by-side pics of the 997 and 991 above, yet others see a wild contrast. Interesting, but we each see what we see. Of course, I do see a difference, but it's a soft evolution instead of a drastic one. And from the marketing materials Porsche used to highlight the 911 shape starting from 1963 through the 991, they feel the same way. Go figure…
05-08-2012, 11:40 AM
#135
Rennlist Member
and I would go further to say that not only have the cars changed within brands but there is less and less of a signature look across brands as well. If you took the last 35 years and noted the design evolution of "classic" sports/GT cars, 911, Jag, AM, etc, there has been a huge styling convergence only within the past 5 years or so.