991 vs 997 in the flesh
02-12-2012, 11:17 AM
#136
Race Car
02-12-2012, 11:28 AM
#137
991
Great thread. {Passionate people discussing their passion}.
I'm an M3 guy that probly will not get rid of it. Very functional, fun car for me.
The 991 seems like it is similar at a higher pricepoint. Ahhh no, I have not driven one.
I have driven 2011 GT3s and I like them a lot. Now I'm shopping, but not willing to give up the M3.
It is more fun to shop than to buy in some ways. I still enjoy my 530i with 138K miles. Cannot get rid of it.
I'm an M3 guy that probly will not get rid of it. Very functional, fun car for me.
The 991 seems like it is similar at a higher pricepoint. Ahhh no, I have not driven one.
I have driven 2011 GT3s and I like them a lot. Now I'm shopping, but not willing to give up the M3.
It is more fun to shop than to buy in some ways. I still enjoy my 530i with 138K miles. Cannot get rid of it.
02-12-2012, 12:30 PM
#139
Rennlist Member
^^ Best argument for the 991 so far!
02-12-2012, 03:21 PM
#140
02-12-2012, 06:02 PM
#141
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You lost me at M3 and smaller footprint. I left the M3 because it felt heavy and it is. You can crap on a 991 all you like but an M3 is heavier and bigger in every possible way..
02-12-2012, 06:46 PM
#142
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I went to a Porsche dealership on Sunday and played the "see if you can spot the 991 in a lot of 997s" game. I'd about concluded that they didn't have a 991 sitting outside when I checked the last car (black on black) and finally saw "P O R S C H E" on the rear. I was somewhat surprised that you really have to know what to look for in order to tell the difference between the 991 and a 997; I thought it would be far more obvious. On closer inspection, the 991 is clearly longer and wider, but without seeing the model designation (or the interior with the new Panamera-style console), I'd still have trouble figuring out at a glance which car is which. (While I was looking around, several other people visited the lot and walked straight by the car without looking at it. It's obvious they had no clue that this was the "new" 911.)
As the owner of a 997.2, I suppose I'm glad that only the cognoscenti will know that I'm driving a prior generation car. To everyone else, the 991 is just another 911--nothing to get excited about.
As the owner of a 997.2, I suppose I'm glad that only the cognoscenti will know that I'm driving a prior generation car. To everyone else, the 991 is just another 911--nothing to get excited about.
02-12-2012, 07:56 PM
#143
Rennlist Member
My point, if it wasn't clear yet, is that the difference from 997 to 991 is not that big. Just like every other time before it, the 991 is a bit bigger and a bit softer but more capable. Its not like we went from a lotus elise to a cadillac eldorado here.
Porsche hasn't marketed or built their standard carreras for an enthusiast only (or even enthusiast primary) crowd in probably almost 20 years.
Comparing this 3250 car with the 4000+ SL, XK, and 6 series is ridiculous. I've got tons of seat time in an sl55. Its fast as hell, but its nothing like any 911, 991 included.
Porsche hasn't marketed or built their standard carreras for an enthusiast only (or even enthusiast primary) crowd in probably almost 20 years.
Comparing this 3250 car with the 4000+ SL, XK, and 6 series is ridiculous. I've got tons of seat time in an sl55. Its fast as hell, but its nothing like any 911, 991 included.
And you are missing the point regarding GT car marketshare - Porsche is not trying to sell you an SL, they are trying to sell SL customers on the 911. Big difference.
02-12-2012, 08:25 PM
#144
Race Director
My point is that, although you may not think the difference is big, to me (and others) Porsche went over a line. You say the standard Carrera hasn't been built for an enthusiast crowd for decades, but I beg to differ. The base 997 was the ONLY way to get feedback unfiltered by electronics in the US market, and it was still quite a stiff ride; similar to the M3 of the time, and more so than my more focused Spyder. But where is the base 991 with manual transmission? Porsche is acting like it doesn't exist. So, yeah, they are marketing the 991 to a different crowd.
And you are missing the point regarding GT car marketshare - Porsche is not trying to sell you an SL, they are trying to sell SL customers on the 911. Big difference.
And you are missing the point regarding GT car marketshare - Porsche is not trying to sell you an SL, they are trying to sell SL customers on the 911. Big difference.
A stiff ride is hardly the indicator of a good performance car suspension. Further, nothing filtered by electronics? Do you realize how much traction control, stability control and other nannies are present on the 997?
The base 991 has a manual tranny. Most buyers period don't want manuals, hence they will be hard to find right now. But they offer one, do they not.
Porsche has been trying to sell 911s to SL owners since 2003 when the R230 came out.
02-12-2012, 08:25 PM
#145
Ironman 140.6
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It's coming as are the turbo and the GT3. Porsche has started with the "S" before with the Cayman, the 997, and the Panamera and it appears they are doing it again.
02-12-2012, 09:39 PM
#146
Nordschleife Master
People have been saying that for years. The SC is too comfy, the 964 has power steering, omg, the 993 has a multi-link rear suspension.
A stiff ride is hardly the indicator of a good performance car suspension. Further, nothing filtered by electronics? Do you realize how much traction control, stability control and other nannies are present on the 997?
The base 991 has a manual tranny. Most buyers period don't want manuals, hence they will be hard to find right now. But they offer one, do they not.
Porsche has been trying to sell 911s to SL owners since 2003 when the R230 came out.
A stiff ride is hardly the indicator of a good performance car suspension. Further, nothing filtered by electronics? Do you realize how much traction control, stability control and other nannies are present on the 997?
The base 991 has a manual tranny. Most buyers period don't want manuals, hence they will be hard to find right now. But they offer one, do they not.
Porsche has been trying to sell 911s to SL owners since 2003 when the R230 came out.
M3 is heavier, but far better balanced.
Glad Porsche cleared up all the confusion with their ads. Wonder why they even felt compelled to say that?
Buy what you like. That's why we have so many choices... not everyone wants the latest Porsche. As you all point out, nothing new about that.
02-12-2012, 10:19 PM
#147
Rennlist Member
This is a very interesting and fun thread to read; here's my 2 cents:
I'm not crazy about the looks of this car and I want to be.....it's not at all how I felt about the 997....I loved that car when i saw it. I spoke to my dealer and he told me that he thought he'd have more of these sold by now and he doesn't so maybe that's a sign..........who knows.
The interior doesn't bother me as much as the exterior. The rear and the front are not to my liking nor is the overall length or the height....that's a lot not to like but what to do?
I took it for 2 test drives and again it's a wonderful performer.....but something is missing! I talk to people at Porsche (technicians) that rave and go on and on and then I start talking myself into it again.
It's expensive too so that's another thing to think about.
My car got hit a few months ago and I'm getting it back soon and it has another year on the lease so I really feel trapped. Turn my present car in and spend $130K on a car I'm not crazy about or wait 7 years for Porsche to change it to maybe another design I don't like????????
It's like a girl I went out with in my middle 20s. My Mom thought I should've married her and back then told me that every day.........so did my sister and everyone that met her but I couldn't and didn't and I can't tell you why but something stopped me and in retrospect I'm glad. I feel almost the same about this car
...........and I wish it didn't get so big!
Tom
I'm not crazy about the looks of this car and I want to be.....it's not at all how I felt about the 997....I loved that car when i saw it. I spoke to my dealer and he told me that he thought he'd have more of these sold by now and he doesn't so maybe that's a sign..........who knows.
The interior doesn't bother me as much as the exterior. The rear and the front are not to my liking nor is the overall length or the height....that's a lot not to like but what to do?
I took it for 2 test drives and again it's a wonderful performer.....but something is missing! I talk to people at Porsche (technicians) that rave and go on and on and then I start talking myself into it again.
It's expensive too so that's another thing to think about.
My car got hit a few months ago and I'm getting it back soon and it has another year on the lease so I really feel trapped. Turn my present car in and spend $130K on a car I'm not crazy about or wait 7 years for Porsche to change it to maybe another design I don't like????????
It's like a girl I went out with in my middle 20s. My Mom thought I should've married her and back then told me that every day.........so did my sister and everyone that met her but I couldn't and didn't and I can't tell you why but something stopped me and in retrospect I'm glad. I feel almost the same about this car
...........and I wish it didn't get so big!
Tom
I saw the car for the first time the other day and I was kind of underwhelmed. What stuck out to me is the difference in the rear wheel wells from our cars. The 997 is curvaceous and bodacious. The slab sides of the 991 just don't stir the gut the same way.
02-12-2012, 11:06 PM
#148
Rennlist Member
Porsche is choosing to introduce the 991 as a $120k automatic full of 'technology'. Even though I am a previous 997 owner, I have skipped all of the local dealer launch parties because this is not a car I am interested in. Why is this so hard for you to accept?
02-13-2012, 12:00 AM
#150
Race Car
Do you realize that EVERY bit of feedback coming from the 991S PDK is electronically filtered and therefore artificial? From steering to suspension, engine noise to parking brake, and obviously the gearbox is electronically controlled. That is obviously what I was referring to.