I took my car (2008 S Cab with manual transmission) in for the 4 year service before it goes away for winter storage. It's actually only 3.5 years old as I picked it up in March and had the 1 year service done in October of that year. It currently has 42,000 km (26,000 miles).

The service advisor called to say they found evidence of rms leak. I haven't had to add oil in 3 seasons (gets changed yearly) and I'm only down one bar over this season. There's no oil on the garage floor. Porsche will repair this under warranty (the next time it comes out next spring, it will be out of warranty).

Questions:

1. The service advisor suggested that I replace the clutch while it's out and Porsche is paying labour. The parts will be about $900. He says he can't tell how worn it is but suspects (I think based on mileage) about 50%. In honesty, I've never kept a car long enough before (about 4 years and 80,000 km) to have to replace a clutch. I do plan on keeping this car long enough to be buried in it. Would you agree with replacing the clutch?

2. I don't entirely understand the relationship between rms leak and intermediate shaft failure. Do I have anything to worry about?

Thanks.


David

 

That's a no brainer. While I normally have a clutch go over 100,000 miles for me it seems to good to be true that they will be in there and are willing to toss in the new one for parts alone. Might as well zero out the miles on the clutch with a switch out.

 

Well, I had my Boxster in at around the 25K mile mark for an RMS leak and I asked the tech to inspect the clutch and advise me if he believed it needed replacing.

He did inspect the clutch and he reported back that he found the clutch in fine shape with plenty of life left. I therefore elected to leave the clutch alone.

With nearly 250K miles on the clutch it appears to be holding up just fine.

However, I did ask the tech to check the clutch hardware pivot points and lube them, those that were specified to receive any lube. After I received the car back the clutch action felt a bit smoother. This might have contributed to the clutch's longevity.

AFAIK, there is no connection between RMS leak and the potential for IMS trouble.

What was recommended and you should check with your service manager is that at the same time the RMS was upgraded the IMS end plate and its seal and bolts were upgraded as well. The new IMS end plate came with a 3-ribbed seal (vs. the single o-ring of the original IMS end plate) and 3 new micro-encapsulated bolts. The bolts thread into the block in through holes and oil can seep past the threads and out from under the bolt heads and well you have an IMS leak. The micro-encapsulated bolts address this.

When the RMS was replaced the IMS end plate and bolts were upgraded and both the RMS and IMS end plate/bolts have remained oil tight since they were done at the 25K mile mark.

To reduce the risk of IMS bearing failure, some owners elect to have the LNE IMS bearing upgrade done. However, I do not know if an 08 is a candidate for this upgrade. You'll have to check with LNE about this.

After you have the RMS replaced and any other work done try to drive the car some to see if the leaks are fixed. If you park the car immediately after getting the car back and if the leak is still present or returns next spring when you start to drive the car again, with the car out of warranty the warranty on the labor/parts will have expired as well.

Sincerely,

Macster.

 

I agree there's no relationship between the RMS, which stands for "rear main seal" and a future IMS problem. The coincidence of letters is irrelevant since IMS stands for intermediate shaft. But let's talk about the clutch first. Your service advisor has a poor opinion of your drivijng, or of Porsche drivers in general, or he's blowing smoke. I get 90,000 to 110,000 miles on a clutch and the one time I had to change one at 83,000 miles I considered it an early failure. If he's willing to provide an estimate that says what it sounds like, that they will change the clutch with no additional labor charge while doing the rear main seal, then I would go ahead and change it. $900 is a good price for a fresh clutch, even if you would have gotten mileage like mine from the original clutch. As a standalone job, I'd expect an estimate of $2500 to $3500 depending on the location of the dealership. Lots of labor in replacing a clutch and frankly I'm surprised they can wrap it all into the amount they bill Porsche for the RMS work. But that's their management problem, not yours. Just make sure the estimate is what you expect. That is, just the $900 for the clutch parts.

However, I definitely agree with doing the IMS preventive measures also, or even instead of the clutch, if the labor for that would also disappear into the work they're going to do anyway. I haven't watched the work done, so I'm not sure getting at the RMS also gives the mechanic access to the IMS bearing. If it does, or if the additional labor is minor, then I would go for that.

Gary

 

RMS leaks are common - actually they start to "sweat". have you used the car this year ? i would be surprised your clutch disk is worn - they can inspect it as anyways while working on RMS. however it's a good idea labor wise.

 

I had my clutch changed when the RMS had to be replaced at 40k miles. They have to take the gearbox off to get to the RMS so it's minimal effort to change the clutch as well.

There is no external way to estimate how much life is left in a clutch.

 

on 1) - YES!!! you get free labor to drop off transmission.
you can get clutch parts yourself:
http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...608001AND.html

2) - when you get transmission off you will be SMART to do this:
replace clutch. inspect flywheel, if it is 40%+ worn - replace flywheel ($1K).
replace AOS with another stock AOS ($140-$200).
inspect RMS, replace RMS.
optionally you can install GT gears differential - TBD or LSD. TBD is now on sale for $1300 sometheing.

for IMS - it is a 'service' item at each 50K miles. you can put it in if you do not have latest design which started from second part of '06 MY cars.
you need a 'retrofit' -
http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html#retrofit

LN part uses ceramic bearinngs and is claimed to be almost immortal compared to faulty stock design. do it if you can put it in.

PS. I just looked up and saw you have '08 car - you cannot do anything with IMS most likely as to take it out from '08 car you need to take motor apart.
so what you must do is to make sure dealer checks IMS status and if there is a leak there or any signs of a problem - it has to be escalated.

 

Thanks all for the advice. I picked up the car today. They replaced the RMS. Looks like they also inspected the flywheel, cleaned the transmission and replaced the IMS sealing ring. They replaced the clutch - my sense is that they can't really tell how worn it is but recommended replacement based on mileage. The service advisor insinuated that the RMS is commonplace - perhaps expect to do this again in 5 years. He said that IMS failure in my model year is unheard of so not to worry.

Thanks again.


David

 

I completely agree that you need to drive the car a bit yet this fall to insure that RMS seal "took" and is holding tight. I had a RMS replaced in a 2002 Boxster I had and it started leaking a week after I got it back (and the $2,500 bill for the labor, clutch and flywheel). However, most Porsche parts installed by an authorized dealer come with a 2 year warranty. So, my dealer had to completely disassemble my '02 Boxster again and replace the RMS along with adding the IMS flange bolts. The second time around cost me about $30 for more parts and I drove around in a Cayenne for 4 days for free.

Watch for that "nose drip" close now...

Best,

Jay
06 997
90 964
84 3.2

 

The LN replacement IMS bearing cannot be retrofit into an '08 without cracking open the crankcase, which is a whole 'nother level beyong dropping the tranny. Some earlier models will take the retrofit bearing without cracking the crankcase.

 

Well, the clutch's wear can be ascertained by simply measuring the amount of lining left compared to the lining thickness of a new friction disc. I've seen the drawings in the factory manual for doing this at least for the older models. But the new cars I suspect use a similar riveted friction disc and the technique still applies.

I hate replacement based on mileage since it often seems the mileage at which the component is to be replaced is based upon the worst case scenario, at least from the car owner's point of view.

Someone comes in with a car with a bad clutch at 40K miles and thereafter the advise is to replace the clutch at 40K miles. Even with the labor covered as part of the RMS job the parts cost adds up.

My car may be somewhat of an exception but had I followed that 40K mile clutch replacment rule I'd have 5 to 6 clutches in this car rather than still being on the original one. Great for the shop doing the work but not so great for my wallet.

Sincerely,

Macster.

 

Well, the more they can bill Porsche the better it is for the dealership. A clever owner would always use the opportunity of engine drop or gearbox out to do some of the maintenance tasks independent of milage. Its true that clutch wear is obvious and i've never heard that one done "based on milage".

 

They couldn't tell how much wear your clutch had when it was still fully assembled. But once they dropped the tranny and pulled apart the clutch to replace it, the wear became visually obvious and they should be able to tell you exactly how much it was worn. They should have saved the parts for you.