Any objections to Arena Red PTS?
08-27-2011, 01:54 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
I had it on my 1st Porsche..a 996. Love it. I'd say go for it!
Last edited by mdrobc1213; 12-22-2012 at 06:28 PM.
08-27-2011, 02:13 AM
#17
Race Director
08-27-2011, 10:31 AM
#19
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Nice
08-27-2011, 11:49 AM
#20
Racer
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as for red's, go for it. At concours folks also tell me this is a nice color among the silvers, blacks and blues (nothing wrong with them, i've had them all)
this is carmon red metallic
this is carmon red metallic
08-28-2011, 01:20 AM
#22
Nordschleife Master
I'm putting this question here because of all the traffic.
When I order my next Porsche I'm going to try to get it in Arena Red. Most of us will know this color of red from the 993 Turbo models.
I have not seen Arena Red on any 911 SINCE THE 993 days.
I will have to Paint To Sample this color. My question to anyone who might be able to answer is do you know of Porsche turning down a PTS Arena Red car? I don't know if Porsche is trying to keep the color an exclusive because of the Iconic 993 Turbo, the last of the air cooled cars. Just like they won't paint a car Gulf Blue or Sport Classic Grey.
Any input would be great appreciated. Gracias.
When I order my next Porsche I'm going to try to get it in Arena Red. Most of us will know this color of red from the 993 Turbo models.
I have not seen Arena Red on any 911 SINCE THE 993 days.
I will have to Paint To Sample this color. My question to anyone who might be able to answer is do you know of Porsche turning down a PTS Arena Red car? I don't know if Porsche is trying to keep the color an exclusive because of the Iconic 993 Turbo, the last of the air cooled cars. Just like they won't paint a car Gulf Blue or Sport Classic Grey.
Any input would be great appreciated. Gracias.
It was a special paint option on 2001-2004 vintage cars.
08-28-2011, 01:58 AM
#23
Re: PTS in a 991
Before I got the poster I had my heart set on Nordic Metallic Gold which is pretty damn rare too. But Porsche took it off of their color pallet after the 2009 season. I had a 45 Caliber APC round in my M1911 cocked an ready to fire; so I pulled the trigger. Had $9000 down at a dealership on a build slot but they skrewed me out of it. Found out...that they sold THE CAR THE WAY I CONFIGURED IT SO SOMEONE ELSE for cash plus a premium. Reason was is I was going to finance $75K of it where the broad who bought it had cash in hand.
a) If you like Nordic Metallic Gold, you are one lucky dude because hardly anyone ever did and you will have the pick of the litter in the used market today. So don't take that option off the table because someone will make you a deal on a used Nordic Metallic Gold that you positively will not be able to refuse!
b) Normally, dealer loves someone that finances better than someone that pays cash. Financing makes them more money, trust me. So there were other factors at work in your failed deal - like the plus premium you mentioned.
c) The PTS 'RS Orange' '10 .2 gt3 that you took as your avatar was for sale at Porsche of Roslyn for over one year! That is where you found the photo as you will remember. It had less than 800 miles and was traded in on another PTS 'RS Orange' Turbo Cab Roslyn had in early 2010. The elderly gentleman who ordered the PTS gt3 found it a bit too much for him. One of only two PTS 'RS Orange' .2 gt3 that I have seen in US - the other ordered by The Collection in Miami. Roslyn sat on this car for a long time (e.g. oddly had BOTH deviating orange stitching & regular grey stitching on different leather panels and no dynamic engine mounts or front axle lift) but finally sold it late this Spring!
d) Regarding 'Arena Red' PTS on the 991, suggest you contact your old 'Porsche Exclusive' friend Sascha (who is now stationed in LA) to see if he knows if 'Arena Red' might be still a 'doable' color at Zuffenhausen. Every year, the factory decides what colors might no longer work with the materials (plastic, rubber, steel, aluminum, composite, etc) on each model. For example, 'RS Orange' has been recently taken off the list of colors you could order via PTS. If 'Arena Red' is NOT on the banned list, they still will ask you to submit a sample of the color at time of order, which they will individually test on the materials to see if it passes quality control. This process takes time and creates a distant ETA for your order. The testing is also part of the reason why PTS was a $5500 option in the past two years (up from $4K+ in '07/'08) and might go to an even higher cost with the new '13 models. I hope not...but it would not surprise me.
e) I too am planning doing a PTS 991 next! My understanding is that PTS will be allowed in the 991, but not right away. I suspect it will be first be permitted on 991 orders starting in March/April of 2012 for late next summer delivery. But nothing is official yet. I will probably wait until at least MY2014 to consider mine.
Saludos, z356 (Carmel)
08-28-2011, 06:32 PM
#24
The PTS ordering process has recently changed. Build time is still extended a further 3-6 months from the standard 3 month for a custom order car but the sample process has been streamlined.
You now have a 2 week window to submit your PTS paint choice (Sprayed out on a 12" x 12" sample) Once Porsche receives the sample they will try to reproduce it and then you should have your car in 6-9 months. If the sample is not sent to Porsche within the 2 week timeframe, the PTS reverts to Black and you end up with a Black car.
We regularly work with Sascha and occasionally have a few of the sample cars from Porsche in our garage. I've never heard of a color being on a banned list however. That's news to me.
You now have a 2 week window to submit your PTS paint choice (Sprayed out on a 12" x 12" sample) Once Porsche receives the sample they will try to reproduce it and then you should have your car in 6-9 months. If the sample is not sent to Porsche within the 2 week timeframe, the PTS reverts to Black and you end up with a Black car.
We regularly work with Sascha and occasionally have a few of the sample cars from Porsche in our garage. I've never heard of a color being on a banned list however. That's news to me.
I never had to submit any color sample and I ordered two different colors so I'm confused about what you're saying!
I ordered an old color from 1965..."Champagne yellow" with no color swatch just naming the color.....After 4 or 5 months they told me they had to change it to Jonquil Yellow which was close and was that OK with me and after looking at some "pictures"...again no sample I said yes.
Then after 2 or 3 more months they said they couldn't do that color so I switched it to Turquiose Blue....again no sample....and that's what I got. It's not my experience that you need any sample!!
I also did a special order interior (another old color from the past) for my 06 C4S cab...Lipstick Red....with no sample.
Also Porsche absolutely has colors they won't do....Edgy (Dan) ordered two they also turned down and wouldn't do so they do say no as well.
Tom
08-28-2011, 08:44 PM
#25
'Times are a-changing', as Dylan used to sing!
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-foru...you-can-4.html
Quote from Rennlist member Cayman who was trying back in March of 2011 to order a PTS 'Spyder':
"My request was only rejected because I didn't have a physical sample. Not because it was a Audi color. When they say paint to sample, they really mean it! My dealer, Sunset Imports, had a sample painted and wanted me to give the official sign off today. They hit the color right on! They overnighted it to Germany today. They stated there shouldn't be any issues now. (crossing fingers). My dealer has been totally going out of there way to make sure I get what I want. A+ customer service!"
Personally, I think PAG is trying to cover their rear ends if the requested PTS is not a regular production color. JSF101 just got a PTS Spyder in 'Speed Yellow' and I don't think he had to submit a sample. Another RL member I know got a PTS Speedster in 'Guards Red' and I doubt he had to submit a sample. 'Speed Yellow' and 'Guards Red' are current production colors and they know it works will all the materials used in those models. We don't know the experience of the other two dealers that ordered PTS Spyders - Walters (CA) with a 'Riviera Blue' and Euroclassics (VA) with an 'Azure Blue' - because they did them on spec and they haven't revealed their methods. They might have needed samples...we don't know yet.
But my guess is that if you ask for any color NOT in current production - e.g. Signal Green - they will ask for a sample. Regardless that PAG did my Signal Green Carrera S back in 2007 in that color - they will ask me for a sample! That was then, this is now! In that way, they can't be liable if the finish product is not what you expected it to look like. And they also need to test the new surfaces to that particular 'hue' in case it doesn't meet quality control standards today. For example, we know that one color that was without issues on the iconic '07/'08 gt3 RS apparently ran into problems when PAG used it on the Cayman and Boxster special editions in 2008! That color was 'RS Orange' and they will not do it today via PTS.
Regarding banned PTS colors, there sure is an unofficial list! Nothing published, nothing printed! But a list never-the-less. Let me tell some of the colors I know that are on that list today: 'Gulf Blue', 'Gulf Orange', 'RS Orange', any gray close to the Sport Classic 911 color e.g 'Dolphin Gray', 'Signal Yellow'* & '11 Speedster Pure Blue! There for sure are others.
Saludos,
Eduardo (Carmel)
*I hope that is because they are saving it for the new 'Racing Yellow' standard 991 color!
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-foru...you-can-4.html
Quote from Rennlist member Cayman who was trying back in March of 2011 to order a PTS 'Spyder':
"My request was only rejected because I didn't have a physical sample. Not because it was a Audi color. When they say paint to sample, they really mean it! My dealer, Sunset Imports, had a sample painted and wanted me to give the official sign off today. They hit the color right on! They overnighted it to Germany today. They stated there shouldn't be any issues now. (crossing fingers). My dealer has been totally going out of there way to make sure I get what I want. A+ customer service!"
Personally, I think PAG is trying to cover their rear ends if the requested PTS is not a regular production color. JSF101 just got a PTS Spyder in 'Speed Yellow' and I don't think he had to submit a sample. Another RL member I know got a PTS Speedster in 'Guards Red' and I doubt he had to submit a sample. 'Speed Yellow' and 'Guards Red' are current production colors and they know it works will all the materials used in those models. We don't know the experience of the other two dealers that ordered PTS Spyders - Walters (CA) with a 'Riviera Blue' and Euroclassics (VA) with an 'Azure Blue' - because they did them on spec and they haven't revealed their methods. They might have needed samples...we don't know yet.
But my guess is that if you ask for any color NOT in current production - e.g. Signal Green - they will ask for a sample. Regardless that PAG did my Signal Green Carrera S back in 2007 in that color - they will ask me for a sample! That was then, this is now! In that way, they can't be liable if the finish product is not what you expected it to look like. And they also need to test the new surfaces to that particular 'hue' in case it doesn't meet quality control standards today. For example, we know that one color that was without issues on the iconic '07/'08 gt3 RS apparently ran into problems when PAG used it on the Cayman and Boxster special editions in 2008! That color was 'RS Orange' and they will not do it today via PTS.
Regarding banned PTS colors, there sure is an unofficial list! Nothing published, nothing printed! But a list never-the-less. Let me tell some of the colors I know that are on that list today: 'Gulf Blue', 'Gulf Orange', 'RS Orange', any gray close to the Sport Classic 911 color e.g 'Dolphin Gray', 'Signal Yellow'* & '11 Speedster Pure Blue! There for sure are others.
Saludos,
Eduardo (Carmel)
*I hope that is because they are saving it for the new 'Racing Yellow' standard 991 color!
08-28-2011, 09:25 PM
#26
I don't know Z356....that's the exact opposite al all my PTS experience and even when I special ordered the leather I needed no sample....Maybe a dealer issue? I gave a name and color code and it was either done or rejected and in the case of the Champagne Yellow....they changed it to Jonquil and asked me if it was OK with no sample!
That's what happened to me. The turquiose Blue I ordered with the name and the color code 3AS!
Wierd but as you know very well pretty cool to get that special Porsche in that special color!
Tom
That's what happened to me. The turquiose Blue I ordered with the name and the color code 3AS!
Wierd but as you know very well pretty cool to get that special Porsche in that special color!
Tom
08-28-2011, 11:33 PM
#27
PTS
Tom: I wish it wasn't so, but I am afraid it's coming to this re: PTS at Porsche. Here is a direct quote from an email I received recently from Porsche Exclusive in Zuffenhausen:
"For Paint-to-Sample it is impossible to guarantee a colour, that will be able to be painted. Every paint-to-sample colour has to be tested at our paintshop. Therefore it is always possible that they decline the colour. So even 'Signal Green' would have to be tested, if you decide to order it. RS orange for example cannot be painted anymore by paint-to-sample because of technical reasons."
So, for example, if you ask them about 'RS Orange', they will suggest instead 'Pastell Orange', which is a PTS color they have had some success of late with the .2 997's. It might not be a bad color. I have only seen photos of it. But it is the old bait & switch - similar your 'Champagne' to 'Jonquil Yellow' story. In some cases there are technical reasons for the refusal (e.g. 'RS Orange'). At other times, it is political - e.g. exclusivity to a particular model (e.g. Speedster Blue). At other times, it could be legal - Gulf Oil is now 'marketing' the old Gulf colors - orange & blue. So it is almost like a copyright issue and Porsche can't or doesn't want to go there...if you know what I mean. To my knowledge, the last Gulf Blue approved was on a Carrera GT a few years back. Since then, Gulf Oil has become more strident in protecting its 'heritage' colors!
By the way, I had once a 'Champagne Yellow' 356. It was on a repainted (and very rare) 1964 Carrera 2 Four Cam coupe. The original color on this car was Konigsblue (Kings Blue) which was a 1961 color. So this was a PTS order on the Carrera back in 1964 by the original owner.
I currently have a factory original paint 'Signal Yellow' 1973 911T Sunroof coupe. It was an available color in 1973 and quite striking! I also own a custom ordered, factory original paint 'Crystal Blue' 1970 911E Targa. The latter is pretty rare - one of 14 911's ever painted this color by the factory in Model Year 1970! Both are low mileage (65K and 53K) original cars - exterior paint, interiors, carpet, headliners, etc - which would compete in the Preservation Group at a PCA concours event. The Crystal Blue car won 'First in Class' and 'First in Division' at the 2009 Parade. It was re-judged for the overall Group trophy and almost made it all the way to the top! See photo below at my garage in Colorado.
So yes, I do appreciate unique hues in a Porsche and I have a long history of being around some of these rare color combinations! By the way, I love your (and Edgy's) Turquoise color very much! z356
"For Paint-to-Sample it is impossible to guarantee a colour, that will be able to be painted. Every paint-to-sample colour has to be tested at our paintshop. Therefore it is always possible that they decline the colour. So even 'Signal Green' would have to be tested, if you decide to order it. RS orange for example cannot be painted anymore by paint-to-sample because of technical reasons."
So, for example, if you ask them about 'RS Orange', they will suggest instead 'Pastell Orange', which is a PTS color they have had some success of late with the .2 997's. It might not be a bad color. I have only seen photos of it. But it is the old bait & switch - similar your 'Champagne' to 'Jonquil Yellow' story. In some cases there are technical reasons for the refusal (e.g. 'RS Orange'). At other times, it is political - e.g. exclusivity to a particular model (e.g. Speedster Blue). At other times, it could be legal - Gulf Oil is now 'marketing' the old Gulf colors - orange & blue. So it is almost like a copyright issue and Porsche can't or doesn't want to go there...if you know what I mean. To my knowledge, the last Gulf Blue approved was on a Carrera GT a few years back. Since then, Gulf Oil has become more strident in protecting its 'heritage' colors!
By the way, I had once a 'Champagne Yellow' 356. It was on a repainted (and very rare) 1964 Carrera 2 Four Cam coupe. The original color on this car was Konigsblue (Kings Blue) which was a 1961 color. So this was a PTS order on the Carrera back in 1964 by the original owner.
I currently have a factory original paint 'Signal Yellow' 1973 911T Sunroof coupe. It was an available color in 1973 and quite striking! I also own a custom ordered, factory original paint 'Crystal Blue' 1970 911E Targa. The latter is pretty rare - one of 14 911's ever painted this color by the factory in Model Year 1970! Both are low mileage (65K and 53K) original cars - exterior paint, interiors, carpet, headliners, etc - which would compete in the Preservation Group at a PCA concours event. The Crystal Blue car won 'First in Class' and 'First in Division' at the 2009 Parade. It was re-judged for the overall Group trophy and almost made it all the way to the top! See photo below at my garage in Colorado.
So yes, I do appreciate unique hues in a Porsche and I have a long history of being around some of these rare color combinations! By the way, I love your (and Edgy's) Turquoise color very much! z356
08-29-2011, 12:00 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
I vote yes for Arena Red PTS, especially since my wife wants an Arena Red 991 with a PDK. I Am interested to hear if that color is available although my dealer felt confident it would not be an issue.
Looking forward to seeing your new Arena Red 991.
Looking forward to seeing your new Arena Red 991.
08-29-2011, 12:03 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
The PTS 'RS Orange' '10 .2 gt3 that you took as your avatar was for sale at Porsche of Roslyn for over one year!
Z356- I tried to but that orange GT3, they wouldn't move on the price. That's why the car sat for so long.
Z356- I tried to but that orange GT3, they wouldn't move on the price. That's why the car sat for so long.