SARGEPUG

I am on the fence about doing a DE @ Limerock. I have tracked a NASCAR stock car before @ Pocono and did extremely well on the tri-oval. It was a 10 lap, 25 mile stint. Hit all my apexes and hit 185 on the long pond straight. Instructer gave me free will, because he saw how well I was doing in his rear view. You must maintain 7 lengths behind the instructer as he increases speed and hit all points for 5 laps or so to be let free. In a passenger car and on a roadcoarse, is obviously a different animal. I have a couple natural concerns, one wiping out the car and 2 behing hit by others. I naturally don't want to sustain damage to the car, since it's mine and not a track rental. lol
Do you beginners keep on the pcm and how well organized are the DE events, in that you don't find yourself trading paint w/ others?

Skibum

I've driven someone else's race car at Lime Rock too. It was a ton of fun.
Nothing I would ever plan on doing with my Porsche. Would I damage my car?? Probably not.
Could someone else, or could something unexpected happen? That's something I'm not willing to risk.

mdrums

Go for it... you will have an instructor in the car with you helping you around the track.

You might want to contact RonCT on this forum since he instructs and runs at Lime Rock in a 997.2S like yours.

I do around 10-15 DE's a year and instruct. Any questions let me know.

utkinpol

in green/yellow instructed groups you will not be allowed to turn off psm and overall safety is perfectly fine. there is nothing to worry about much.

zoomzoommo

This is my fifth year of doing DE's and the occasional open track day. I've always found PCA & BMW CCA events to be well organized and safe. The skills that you will develop through seat time on road courses are quite different than driving around an oval.

A few suggestions:
1. Realize there are no trophies. DE's are intended to assist you in your efforts to become a better driver.
2. Make a committment to yourself to bring your car home in the same shape at which it arrived (with the exception of brakes and tires).
3. While accidents on the track at DE's are rare, if you don't feel comfortable 'self insuring', buy DE insurance from Lockton Affinity. Lockton provides DE insurance for any PCA and BMW CCA DE.
4. While you can receive excellent instruction at DE's, it would be greatly beneficial to attend a professional driving school first (i.e. Porsche Sport Driving School, Bondurant, etc.).

I'm 46 years old, and am glad to have discovered the joys of driving (not racing) on the track. For me, it's as much the social experience of being at the track as the actual seat time.

NAM VET

I tracked a Superformance Cobra replica many times over then years, thousands of track miles. But i don't intend to track my new to me 997Sc1. the chance of injury or damage is small, but ever present. The initial trepedation gives way to a feeling that one can get faster and better, and I have seen many drivers let the "red mist" get in their eyes, and damage their cars. Sometimes, it was a following or leading car that caused damage, and one death, absolutely no fault of the car or driver. It can be expensive, too.

But my son, and I did get a lot of instruction, which definately helps when confronted by a developing senario out in daily driving. Threshold braking, apexes, thinking of options in mid corner, very helpful things. I would suggest closely supervised track learning with a qualified instructor, (I have a Porsche instructor certificate) but still am no where near what a pro can teach and do.

You can learn your own and your car's limits, and how to never drive to that point. For me, i got to be as good as i was ever going to get, and the safety and cost factor have made me hang up my race helmet and Nomex. I have run VIR with other car groups, and found that the Mustang drivers are absolutely the most dangerous drivers to be running with on a track.

At a DE, you will meet and make many good friends, very helpful, and just a great group of like minded men and women. At some point, you will have to decide how far you want to go with track driving. It really can be the proverbial "slippery slope." But I believe the educational experience for a novice is vital, so that I put my daughter in a helmet on a track with a pro instructor. I saw the benefit my son got from it over the years.

But for me, now, Track driving is a "been there, done that" sort of experience. It is low risk, but not no risk. There is a saying, don't put a car on a track you can't afford to leave there. You can get as much experience safer and cheaper at Autocross events.

Think it thru, and enjoy.

mdrums

Excellent post....I totally agree about taking the PSDS (Porsche Sport Driving School). I did my 1st DE with PCA...I did pretty good but was confused on a few things. My wife sent me to PSDS 2 day course and I came back a much better driver. I did another DE a few weeks later and was moved out of green and then went solo after 2 more DE's. Eventually I became an instructor and I thoroughly enjoy it.

buckwheat987

I started with PSDS then tracked my boxster a couple of times.

I thought it was an amazing experience. But I wanted to feel more secure and rigid than the boxster.

I then followed the advice that a couple of PSDS instructors gave me and purchased a low optioned base carrera in spring 2009. They felt the base was more than enough car for most people starting out. It was fairly cheap and in my mind if something bad happened on the track I wouldn't be so brought down.

I have driven the base carrera in about 12-14 events since then. I'm usually sign up for blue and sometimes take an instructor and sometimes I run solo.

I have deliberately taken my time moving up the run groups. I'm old and in no rush.

Lately my blue run group has been mixed with the white run group so I am on the track with some pretty good drivers and some drivers who know just enough to be dangerous.


Into my third year of DE I just did my first mods to the car. Just suspensions work with Bilsteins and gt3 LCA's. What a difference it makes.

My next move is to hire a coach to help me become a smoother driver and one who shifts better. I am terrible at shifting and I unsettle the car too often.

To the OP, I have been at a DE where an accident happened on the very first lap of the green group. Someone got scared (even at the low speed), lifted and the car spun. There was minor car to car contact with the car behind it. So it can happen at any time. Only you can make the call.

However, at my last event I was on tail of the turbo who I caught in every set of turns and who pulled away from me in every straight. But by the end of the next turn I was on him again. It showed me how much I have progressed and how much the car can do when handled correctly.

A thrill you can’t get on a street.

utkinpol

well, my opinion is that anybody who gets on track should be realistic about his own intentions. it also should be understood that core driving skills and car control skills should be already there, to some extent, and i also agree that autocross is an excellent starting venue - you will spin your car there in safe environment and it will teach you to sense that limit where you loose traction so you will know on a track when you get near to that limit you do not want to exceed.

still, with all that said, chances to spin and loose control in green group is minimal. most of time in green group people spend in long boring trains and just polish their ability to see and follow the line.

when one gets up to solo group level - it is a fair game, you get what you want to get. in last SCDA solo event i did, in rain - actually it is my avatar picture, a guy in saab got his has broken in half almost in turn 6 at NHMS where he met first left wall, spin and went into right wall. no one forces anybody to do stupid things, people do it to themselves. i assume that one will have plenty of time to decide how far to take this hobby, but it is not a reason to be afraid of initial stage simple DE events in green group.

Skibum

I need to come and watch you guys at Lime Rock sometime.
Are spectators allowed? Is there a charge to get onto the grounds?
Is paddock parking available?

Edgy01

I won't track anything I can't afford to destroy.

Skibum

I could not agree more with my left coast friend.

yemenmocha

Well I have a convertible and so I'd probably DE the M3 before this car.

Next one might be Boxster Spyder or Cayman, something more track appropriate.

Alan Smithee

Don't be concerned about wiping out. It is extremely difficult to completely lose control of these cars; you have to be making a serious effort to push hard to the limit. The instructors will not let you get anywhere near there your first time out.

And a well run event will not tolerate yahoos at the wheel, and should allow you to be adequately spaced from other cars, so I would not be concerned with other drivers, either. You are in closer quarters, with far less attentive drivers, on public roads.

Go and have fun. Just leave your ego at home.

Tcc1999

Amen Brother!!!!