View Poll Results: did YOUR car suffer an IMS failure
Voters: 1662. You may not vote on this poll
IMS failure for your 997 car, Y or N? tell us (yr, 997.1, .2, m96, m97, failure mode)
08-17-2017, 08:47 PM
#842
Ricky H. call Jake Raby and discuss. You may be able to save your motor. He will give you all your options. Its still possible that this is not your IMS.
08-17-2017, 10:14 PM
#843
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Sorry, missed your question. Yes, you absolutely can have not only a more reliable motor, but also a stronger one that's bored to a 4.0 displacement. RND only does the replacement stock motor but with the better IMS Nickasil lined cylinders, etc but in the original 3.4, 3.6, or 3.8 displacement. If you want the 4.0 liter build you up ace to work with Jake Raby At Flat 6 Innovations directly, but then you're looking at some additional $s and a 6 month wait. For those who have done it though, they say it's so worth it.
08-20-2017, 03:40 AM
#844
Former Vendor
Its just too much for the admin team to keep up with this much backlog. All the updates and logistics takes so much effort.
08-23-2017, 08:48 PM
#845
Instructor
FYI- current wait at Flat 6 is 13 months, not 6. This has been a record year for us. I'm not taking any more orders for 2-3 months while we play catch up.
Its just too much for the admin team to keep up with this much backlog. All the updates and logistics takes so much effort.
Its just too much for the admin team to keep up with this much backlog. All the updates and logistics takes so much effort.
How many cars, typically, make up your backlog at any given time?
08-23-2017, 08:58 PM
#846
Former Vendor
As engines and cars get older on the M96/97 side the cars take longer to process. It takes us 3 days longer to complete a project than it did 5 years ago due to things aging. By the same token, the 9x7.2 and 991 based (9a1) engines take even longer due to their own set of challenges.
Itll never be about how many we do; it'll always be about how well they are done. We'll never mass produce and we'll always have one assembler assigned per vehicle. That one person extracts the engine, disassembles it, documents it, machines it, balances it, reassembles it and re-installs it... They fire it up and hand it over to me for evaluation. It doesn't get more comprehensive, accountable, and responsible than that.
08-24-2017, 01:20 AM
#847
No IMS Failure on 2005 C2 997.1 with M96 engine.
Car was manufactured in Sep. 2004, delivered to original owner in NYC area in late Nov. 2004. I'm the third owner and just purchased the car on the East Coast in Aug. 2017. Car had 28,200 miles at delivery to me in mid-August 2017, but I've put 1,200 miles on it in the last 10 days on a trip from East Coast to Midwest (home). This was all done on the original IMS bearing in the M96 engine. No hiccups.
Engine number is: M9605-695, a very early 997.1 that is among the first 400 delivered to US. Of course, this engine is right in the sweet spot for IMS failures, but for several reasons I will delineate below, I decided an '05 C2 w/M96 engine was the car for me.
My father & his entire family are from Stuttgart. I've wanted a 911 since I was 8 years old, when I went to Zuffenhausen for the first time with my dad & uncle. I just turned 40 and decided I couldn't wait any longer
We have driven only BMWs for 50 years in my immediate family. This is the first Porsche. Here's the criteria & rational I used prior to my 911 purchase:
1) Low miles, early model 997.1, as manual/analog as I could find it. Didn't need or necessarily want an "S" model, a nice low miles & immaculate C2 was just fine for me.
2) After reading many blogs/forums, (fretting over the decision a good bit), talking to independent Porsche specialists, and the official Porsche dealer/maintainer in my home town -- I decided I wanted a 997.1 with easier M96 access to IMS bearing so that I could switch it out as a preventative measure for the life of the engine.
3) I did not want to tear apart an entire M97 engine in the MY2006-2008 range to replace the IMS bearing, acknowledging the risk is much lower (but not totally absent) with the improved bearing in the MY2006-2008 997.1s.
4) I knew in advance I would install the Flat 6 Innovations/LN Engineering "Ultimate IMS Solution" with flat/plain bearing w/direct oil feed -- and this would happen very shortly after acquisition of the vehicle. The car is now at an independent Porsche specialist near me, and starts the process tomorrow.
5) I wanted to eliminate the use of a ball bearing within the IMS completely.
6) I've been reassured by each of the specialists listed above (and believe) the direct oil feed feature to the flat/plain bearing does not deprive the remainder of the engine of any significant amount of engine oil; will not starve the engine, or do any harm to engine components elsewhere -- especially with the extremely small quantity of oil used to continuously lube the flat/plain bearing.
Let me finish the novel with this: the two most compelling stories I received from official Porsche dealers/maintainers located separately in St. Louis and NYC/NJ was: 1) working on Porsche since 1982, one maintainer said he's only seen two IMS failures in the thousands of 996s and 997s he's worked on; and 2) the other maintainer said that a 2005 997.1 is bullet proof if you upgrade the IMS bearing to either an improved ball bearing or flat/plain bearing -- both with direct oil feed. Several maintainers urged me to stay away from ceramic bearings due to the friction/wear between the harder ceramic & softer metal track/casing in those bearing upgrade kits.
My advice given what I was told by half a dozen Porsche maintainers: you should have no fears about purchasing a 2005 997.1 with M96 engine, as long as you know the service history, the car wasn't abused (or conversely, never driven), and you are looking to upgrade the bearing in short order. I will let you know how the flat/plain bearing works out for me -- but I expect no problems other than wanting to drive the car constantly...and racking up too many miles.
Car was manufactured in Sep. 2004, delivered to original owner in NYC area in late Nov. 2004. I'm the third owner and just purchased the car on the East Coast in Aug. 2017. Car had 28,200 miles at delivery to me in mid-August 2017, but I've put 1,200 miles on it in the last 10 days on a trip from East Coast to Midwest (home). This was all done on the original IMS bearing in the M96 engine. No hiccups.
Engine number is: M9605-695, a very early 997.1 that is among the first 400 delivered to US. Of course, this engine is right in the sweet spot for IMS failures, but for several reasons I will delineate below, I decided an '05 C2 w/M96 engine was the car for me.
My father & his entire family are from Stuttgart. I've wanted a 911 since I was 8 years old, when I went to Zuffenhausen for the first time with my dad & uncle. I just turned 40 and decided I couldn't wait any longer
We have driven only BMWs for 50 years in my immediate family. This is the first Porsche. Here's the criteria & rational I used prior to my 911 purchase:1) Low miles, early model 997.1, as manual/analog as I could find it. Didn't need or necessarily want an "S" model, a nice low miles & immaculate C2 was just fine for me.
2) After reading many blogs/forums, (fretting over the decision a good bit), talking to independent Porsche specialists, and the official Porsche dealer/maintainer in my home town -- I decided I wanted a 997.1 with easier M96 access to IMS bearing so that I could switch it out as a preventative measure for the life of the engine.
3) I did not want to tear apart an entire M97 engine in the MY2006-2008 range to replace the IMS bearing, acknowledging the risk is much lower (but not totally absent) with the improved bearing in the MY2006-2008 997.1s.
4) I knew in advance I would install the Flat 6 Innovations/LN Engineering "Ultimate IMS Solution" with flat/plain bearing w/direct oil feed -- and this would happen very shortly after acquisition of the vehicle. The car is now at an independent Porsche specialist near me, and starts the process tomorrow.
5) I wanted to eliminate the use of a ball bearing within the IMS completely.
6) I've been reassured by each of the specialists listed above (and believe) the direct oil feed feature to the flat/plain bearing does not deprive the remainder of the engine of any significant amount of engine oil; will not starve the engine, or do any harm to engine components elsewhere -- especially with the extremely small quantity of oil used to continuously lube the flat/plain bearing.
Let me finish the novel with this: the two most compelling stories I received from official Porsche dealers/maintainers located separately in St. Louis and NYC/NJ was: 1) working on Porsche since 1982, one maintainer said he's only seen two IMS failures in the thousands of 996s and 997s he's worked on; and 2) the other maintainer said that a 2005 997.1 is bullet proof if you upgrade the IMS bearing to either an improved ball bearing or flat/plain bearing -- both with direct oil feed. Several maintainers urged me to stay away from ceramic bearings due to the friction/wear between the harder ceramic & softer metal track/casing in those bearing upgrade kits.
My advice given what I was told by half a dozen Porsche maintainers: you should have no fears about purchasing a 2005 997.1 with M96 engine, as long as you know the service history, the car wasn't abused (or conversely, never driven), and you are looking to upgrade the bearing in short order. I will let you know how the flat/plain bearing works out for me -- but I expect no problems other than wanting to drive the car constantly...and racking up too many miles.
Last edited by MIKEtheSWABIAN; 08-24-2017 at 01:35 AM.
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08-31-2017, 04:13 PM
#848
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No IMS Failure on 2005 C2 997.1 with M96 engine.
Car was manufactured in Sep. 2004, delivered to original owner in NYC area in late Nov. 2004. I'm the third owner and just purchased the car on the East Coast in Aug. 2017. Car had 28,200 miles at delivery to me in mid-August 2017, but I've put 1,200 miles on it in the last 10 days on a trip from East Coast to Midwest (home). This was all done on the original IMS bearing in the M96 engine. No hiccups.
Engine number is: M9605-695, a very early 997.1 that is among the first 400 delivered to US. Of course, this engine is right in the sweet spot for IMS failures, but for several reasons I will delineate below, I decided an '05 C2 w/M96 engine was the car for me.
My father & his entire family are from Stuttgart. I've wanted a 911 since I was 8 years old, when I went to Zuffenhausen for the first time with my dad & uncle. I just turned 40 and decided I couldn't wait any longer We have driven only BMWs for 50 years in my immediate family. This is the first Porsche. Here's the criteria & rational I used prior to my 911 purchase:
1) Low miles, early model 997.1, as manual/analog as I could find it. Didn't need or necessarily want an "S" model, a nice low miles & immaculate C2 was just fine for me.
2) After reading many blogs/forums, (fretting over the decision a good bit), talking to independent Porsche specialists, and the official Porsche dealer/maintainer in my home town -- I decided I wanted a 997.1 with easier M96 access to IMS bearing so that I could switch it out as a preventative measure for the life of the engine.
3) I did not want to tear apart an entire M97 engine in the MY2006-2008 range to replace the IMS bearing, acknowledging the risk is much lower (but not totally absent) with the improved bearing in the MY2006-2008 997.1s.
4) I knew in advance I would install the Flat 6 Innovations/LN Engineering "Ultimate IMS Solution" with flat/plain bearing w/direct oil feed -- and this would happen very shortly after acquisition of the vehicle. The car is now at an independent Porsche specialist near me, and starts the process tomorrow.
5) I wanted to eliminate the use of a ball bearing within the IMS completely.
6) I've been reassured by each of the specialists listed above (and believe) the direct oil feed feature to the flat/plain bearing does not deprive the remainder of the engine of any significant amount of engine oil; will not starve the engine, or do any harm to engine components elsewhere -- especially with the extremely small quantity of oil used to continuously lube the flat/plain bearing.
Let me finish the novel with this: the two most compelling stories I received from official Porsche dealers/maintainers located separately in St. Louis and NYC/NJ was: 1) working on Porsche since 1982, one maintainer said he's only seen two IMS failures in the thousands of 996s and 997s he's worked on; and 2) the other maintainer said that a 2005 997.1 is bullet proof if you upgrade the IMS bearing to either an improved ball bearing or flat/plain bearing -- both with direct oil feed. Several maintainers urged me to stay away from ceramic bearings due to the friction/wear between the harder ceramic & softer metal track/casing in those bearing upgrade kits.
My advice given what I was told by half a dozen Porsche maintainers: you should have no fears about purchasing a 2005 997.1 with M96 engine, as long as you know the service history, the car wasn't abused (or conversely, never driven), and you are looking to upgrade the bearing in short order. I will let you know how the flat/plain bearing works out for me -- but I expect no problems other than wanting to drive the car constantly...and racking up too many miles.
Car was manufactured in Sep. 2004, delivered to original owner in NYC area in late Nov. 2004. I'm the third owner and just purchased the car on the East Coast in Aug. 2017. Car had 28,200 miles at delivery to me in mid-August 2017, but I've put 1,200 miles on it in the last 10 days on a trip from East Coast to Midwest (home). This was all done on the original IMS bearing in the M96 engine. No hiccups.
Engine number is: M9605-695, a very early 997.1 that is among the first 400 delivered to US. Of course, this engine is right in the sweet spot for IMS failures, but for several reasons I will delineate below, I decided an '05 C2 w/M96 engine was the car for me.
My father & his entire family are from Stuttgart. I've wanted a 911 since I was 8 years old, when I went to Zuffenhausen for the first time with my dad & uncle. I just turned 40 and decided I couldn't wait any longer
We have driven only BMWs for 50 years in my immediate family. This is the first Porsche. Here's the criteria & rational I used prior to my 911 purchase:1) Low miles, early model 997.1, as manual/analog as I could find it. Didn't need or necessarily want an "S" model, a nice low miles & immaculate C2 was just fine for me.
2) After reading many blogs/forums, (fretting over the decision a good bit), talking to independent Porsche specialists, and the official Porsche dealer/maintainer in my home town -- I decided I wanted a 997.1 with easier M96 access to IMS bearing so that I could switch it out as a preventative measure for the life of the engine.
3) I did not want to tear apart an entire M97 engine in the MY2006-2008 range to replace the IMS bearing, acknowledging the risk is much lower (but not totally absent) with the improved bearing in the MY2006-2008 997.1s.
4) I knew in advance I would install the Flat 6 Innovations/LN Engineering "Ultimate IMS Solution" with flat/plain bearing w/direct oil feed -- and this would happen very shortly after acquisition of the vehicle. The car is now at an independent Porsche specialist near me, and starts the process tomorrow.
5) I wanted to eliminate the use of a ball bearing within the IMS completely.
6) I've been reassured by each of the specialists listed above (and believe) the direct oil feed feature to the flat/plain bearing does not deprive the remainder of the engine of any significant amount of engine oil; will not starve the engine, or do any harm to engine components elsewhere -- especially with the extremely small quantity of oil used to continuously lube the flat/plain bearing.
Let me finish the novel with this: the two most compelling stories I received from official Porsche dealers/maintainers located separately in St. Louis and NYC/NJ was: 1) working on Porsche since 1982, one maintainer said he's only seen two IMS failures in the thousands of 996s and 997s he's worked on; and 2) the other maintainer said that a 2005 997.1 is bullet proof if you upgrade the IMS bearing to either an improved ball bearing or flat/plain bearing -- both with direct oil feed. Several maintainers urged me to stay away from ceramic bearings due to the friction/wear between the harder ceramic & softer metal track/casing in those bearing upgrade kits.
My advice given what I was told by half a dozen Porsche maintainers: you should have no fears about purchasing a 2005 997.1 with M96 engine, as long as you know the service history, the car wasn't abused (or conversely, never driven), and you are looking to upgrade the bearing in short order. I will let you know how the flat/plain bearing works out for me -- but I expect no problems other than wanting to drive the car constantly...and racking up too many miles.
Although lacking the same family history, my reasoning behind purchasing an 05 C2 was the same: easy access to preventable bearing failure, analog, and attainable price point. Will you really be able to buy a low mileage 2005 C2 for less than $25k USD at some point? Really? Don't the other, older 911s also have inherent design flaws that have impeded their pricing ramp-up? Maybe, but they're certainly more expensive than they used to be....
09-03-2017, 09:29 PM
#849
Although lacking the same family history, my reasoning behind purchasing an 05 C2 was the same: easy access to preventable bearing failure, analog, and attainable price point. Will you really be able to buy a low mileage 2005 C2 for less than $25k USD at some point? Really? Don't the other, older 911s also have inherent design flaws that have impeded their pricing ramp-up? Maybe, but they're certainly more expensive than they used to be....
Visiting mom -- even my mom likes it! Although, I think she likes the green color the best.
Despite the $3,500 cost/labor to install the flat bearing with direct oil feed: I now have no worries on an engine with 29K miles & total peace of mind. I put 200 miles on it just this past weekend & it drove like a dream. I hope 997.1 hunters will give the 2005 models a chance.
Last edited by MIKEtheSWABIAN; 09-03-2017 at 09:48 PM.
09-09-2017, 11:39 AM
#852
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
10-03-2017, 07:15 PM
#853
Rennlist Member
05 997 S with 142K miles. No failure (I'm the third owner, a recent one at that, so I do not have any info to suggest if there was a failure or not). I will be doing the clutch soon and will see if I have the larger bearing or not. My production date is 2/05 with engine number M97/0168509515.
10-09-2017, 03:11 PM
#855
Racer
This poll thread is really helpful, but it would be even more useful if the responses were classified into IMS bearing failures / no failure by bearing type. For those of us who have the larger bearing, I'm wondering what the chance of failure is. Has anyone attempted to compile these statistics by bearing type?