tpenta

Folks,

I was sad by BMW's news about the i3 and i8 direction today. The thing that bothered me the most was: "breaking with the acceleration pedal".

I just can't imagine the sports driving experience in the absence of combustion engine, gears, or break pedal.

I am typically not resistant to change but I am having some trouble with this direction. Perahps it will be different once I drive a car like that in the future.

In the last two weeks, I've been in two rentals: a Prius and a Nissan Versa. Both were good reminders that I really appreciate the driving "feel" and experience.

Thoughts?

-T

cbzzoom

Most cars are just utilities to get you from one place to another. Those cars should be simple, fuel efficient, easy to operate, safe, etc. I think manufacturers are making great strides in these directions.

A sports car should be for pleasure, and be perhaps only an occasional drive. It should be raw and engaging and maybe a bit impractical. It should require skill and involvement.

The thing that disturbs me is how many sports cars have electronic, numb controls. The GTR, the McLaren MP4, 4wd Lambos, what is the world coming to !? Keep your gizmos out of my sports car!

IMO the Japanese are the ones who really understand the two different roles of cars. Sure they make the Prius and all that junk, but they also make the Miata and the S2000 and the RX8, which are real raw hands-on mechanical sports cars with "driving pleasure".

It's the Germans who a really F'ing things up. Too many gizmos and gadgets in the "ultimate driving machine".

tpenta

The problem with the Japanese cars is that they have hideous designs (imo).

-T

racer

Don't forget your government and ins. industry involment... Skid/traction/stability controls, ABS, Airbags, bumpers, crumple zones, reduced emissions...

Also realize that, demographically speaking, while you may have the money, you may be loosing some say as companies need to ensure there product is engaging for young folks.. who more and more think of cars as appliances than expressions of freedom.

tpenta

Yeah, I guess...

My 8-year old has already told me that when he gets a car he wants one with a lot of technology capabilities in the dashboard.

So, even though he has been living in German cars since birth, he still doesn't get it. I obviously have failed as a father.

Maybe he'll get it when he takes his first date out in dad's hand-me-down

-T

mooty

s2000 and mx5 are some of the best cars designed in the last 30 years.

purrybonker

It's all going to hell in a hand basket and we, as consumers are getting exactly what we deserve. PDK - oooooo, everyone raves about what they are gaining "technically" and "technologically", but seem oblivious to what they are losing experientially. (not a particular condemnation of PDK - I think it's a great option if it appeals - just using it as a handy example)

So be it.

I test drove a Bimmer 3 series wagon the other day (had to be a wagon and had to be a manual tranny) - first of all it took some heavy lifting on the part of the dealer to locate a wagon with a manual tranny and then when I took it for a drive a strange thing happened...

Hill start assist???? WTF??? I rest my case - we will get exactly what we deserve as consumers continue to bow down and worship (with their payment books) every new technology that comes down the road.

Man I'm starting to feel old.

awai08

I drove a Prius as my DD for almost TWO years; it was the car that allowed my P-car to be the "other" car on the weekends. Although the Prius made for some really good contrast, my search for its replacement began after only one year of ownership. Numb steering, flexy chassis, grocery-cart handling and weak cross-wind resistance... absolutely NO redeeming qualities of a car I can respect. It got an actual 43 miles/gallon in mixed traffic and 38 mi/gallon on the highway; that's not good enough for me. Perhaps the worst of it was that I was alone in wanting to tweak the performance aspect of the Prius on the forums. Everybody else was obsessed with mileage. ...Really???

I don't think I'll ever vote again for the econo-hybrid with my dollar, but I may bid for the Tesla sedan or Fisker Karma if those cars make it to market. Until then, I'll contribute by driving a smaller petrol car as my DD, and tool around the weekends in yesterday's dead-dinosaur burner sports cars if that's all I can have.

Indeed, in some ways I lament the changes imposed on the car industry that seem to limit the fun factor of driving. Then again, I've also been frustrated with the rate of progress. To my eye, car design has been more evolutionary than revolutionary over the last ten years. Perhaps the new efficiency constraints are just the kick-in-the-pants the industry needs to really dream up something new??

Zeus993

And on this note, my second P car (yes, I've decided to start a fleet...), to go to an even more raw and basic car, will be a 993 to use on the weekends. I came very close to swapping my beautiful 997 for a 993 cab but have now decided to put a new exhaust othe 997 and buy a 993. Hmm... what will the wife say about this?

Tcc1999

Would this be a corollary of the, "People get the government they deserve"?

Hill start assist is a great solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The thing is, and maybe I'm wrong, but a lot of people, when they drive, tend to be as numb as their cars.

brendo

while i understand the concern about losing the visceral feel of driving, airbags, traction control and crumple zones have nothing to do with losing that. we can always turn off traction control - why you would do that on a public road is beyond me - but the others don't take away from anything.

to put this in perspective - about the same number of people die each year in auto accidents as women die from breast cancer. And you can't dispute the overwhelming message we all receive from all the pink stuff we see everywhere...

my point: it's important to draw a distinction between safety systems and driving experience.

personally, i love my PDK because it allows me to focus more on the line, throttle and braking in addition to adding performance. that's just me, it's not for everybody. i'd just rather focus more on the car being in the right place at the right time and at the appropriate velocity. my 'experience' in the car does not suffer.

there are plenty of autos that don't have these safety systems. last i checked you can still buy a 1969 shelby mustang and wear lap belts

Targatoo

It comes down to this: People still ride horses.

There is a certain, authentic experience from driving a manual transmission, RWD sports car. There will always be people seeking this experience, just as there are those that ride horses for fun.

If you just want to get around a track quickly at the optimal velocity try a roller coster. If you want to challenge yourself, dial it back a little. But, I realize the line is very grey and very wide. I don't own a '69 Shelby and never will. Am I a hypocryte? I think I'm living the dream that hung as a poster on my bedroom wall.

brendo

i happen to think this is perfectly reasonable. i'm just not going to bust on people who ride horses because they enjoy it, just as i wouldn't scoff at somebody that leaves traction control on at the track.

to each his own, which is the most wonderful thing about porsche, IMO. you can get what you want, drive it how you'd like.

zanwar

I believe our Mini Cooper is fitted with hill start assist. I've noticed if you hold the car on an incline with the foot brake, the car stays put for a moment after you release the brake pedal. Makes it easier to drive away smoothly if you haven't been taught to hold the car on an incline with the hand brake. Stuff like this isn't a big deal. Its just a small mod in the braking system. If it wasn't advertised as a feature, you probably wouldn't have noticed it.

I also don't accept the argument that government regulations are ruining car design. Not while you can still buy a Lotus Elise and a Range Rover in the same day. It's consumer demand that's setting the direction of car design.

Alan Smithee

Doesn't the 997 have 'hill start assist'?

Regardless, there are plenty of visceral cars out there, new and used. Vote with your wallet.