Complete Bummer - bottomed out
03-21-2010, 06:28 PM
#1
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Complete Bummer - bottomed out
Driving down Monument Blvd at dusk in Concord, CA - turned to go into a left turn only lane about 100' from the intersection and rode up and over a curb that the City had placed between the left turn lane and the over two lanes that were going in my direction. Their was no median, just a roughly 12" wide curb running about 200' and then meeting up with a real median further up the road.
This intersection was dimly lit, no relectors on the curb, not painted white, no signage and was impossible to see. I was going about 20 mph, no cell phone, no drinks, no distractions. Where the curb first started, the face of the concrete curb had been "shaved" down at a 45 degree angle by what must have been a jackhammer or other piece of similar equipment. It had obviously also been hit by others as well.
Towed to Walnut Creek Porsche - estimate $8k - $10k of damage under my 2008 997s cab with 11,000 miles. Radiators, cooling system, fans all need replacement.
Reported to insurance yesterday but would love to take action against the City for what seems like a completely absurd road condition (at least at night).
Am I crazy to even think about being successful by going against the City? At a minimum, I will encourage insurance company to subrogate against the City if they have any interest but would lideally like to get City to pay 100%, including my deductible and therefore hopefully mitigate insurance premium increases.
On one hand, feel like an idiot for hitting this but on the other hand, I am very angry at this absurd road condition. The curb is there presumably to keep someone from taking a left turn across two lanes of traffic coming out of the road I was turning into - not the other way around.
Sorry for long whine - thoughts?
This intersection was dimly lit, no relectors on the curb, not painted white, no signage and was impossible to see. I was going about 20 mph, no cell phone, no drinks, no distractions. Where the curb first started, the face of the concrete curb had been "shaved" down at a 45 degree angle by what must have been a jackhammer or other piece of similar equipment. It had obviously also been hit by others as well.
Towed to Walnut Creek Porsche - estimate $8k - $10k of damage under my 2008 997s cab with 11,000 miles. Radiators, cooling system, fans all need replacement.
Reported to insurance yesterday but would love to take action against the City for what seems like a completely absurd road condition (at least at night).
Am I crazy to even think about being successful by going against the City? At a minimum, I will encourage insurance company to subrogate against the City if they have any interest but would lideally like to get City to pay 100%, including my deductible and therefore hopefully mitigate insurance premium increases.
On one hand, feel like an idiot for hitting this but on the other hand, I am very angry at this absurd road condition. The curb is there presumably to keep someone from taking a left turn across two lanes of traffic coming out of the road I was turning into - not the other way around.
Sorry for long whine - thoughts?
03-21-2010, 07:59 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
This type of suit seldom has a good outcome for the plaintiff. It's analogous to breaking your ankle on an uneven patch of pavement while walking across the street - unless there is (gross) negligence you don't have much of case. In the end, the law isn't about what is fair but what the facts are and how they apply to the local or state law (as my wife, who is an attorney, tells me). Sorry about the mishap. If it's any consolation I did the same thing in a 1990 325i. Best of luck.
03-21-2010, 08:14 PM
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Photograph & document everything and keep a complete paperwork trail. Notify the owner of the roadway that you intend to seek compensation for the damage their improperly signed & marked intersection caused to your vehicle. Note that many state/county/city entities are immune to lawsuits, even if they were negligent you might not be able to recover any damages.
It is probable that you will spend an inordinate amount of time and effort to pursue a claim against the roadway owner, if it is even possible. Have the car fixed under your insurance policy, pay the deductible and let the insurance company take up the crusade. Not a solution that is satisfying in any way, but what is your time worth?
It is probable that you will spend an inordinate amount of time and effort to pursue a claim against the roadway owner, if it is even possible. Have the car fixed under your insurance policy, pay the deductible and let the insurance company take up the crusade. Not a solution that is satisfying in any way, but what is your time worth?
03-21-2010, 08:52 PM
#4
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Sorry to hear about your little accident. Unfortunately I doubt there is much that you can do against the city for this, unless you are trying to bring this up just to make a statement. Since insurance will probably cover you for this I would just be careful around the same turn next time and hope to not run into anything similar in the future.
Best of luck if you decide to go after the bastards
Best of luck if you decide to go after the bastards
03-21-2010, 08:55 PM
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Agree with both of you. Only happened a couple of days ago - still very irritated. Agree that dealing with the government on something like this would be a nightmare in terms of time and probably outcome. Out of principle, I am tempted to pursue but will probably get worn down by process.
Will see what insurance carrier has to say.
Will see what insurance carrier has to say.
03-22-2010, 02:09 AM
#7
Race Director
Driving down Monument Blvd at dusk in Concord, CA - turned to go into a left turn only lane about 100' from the intersection and rode up and over a curb that the City had placed between the left turn lane and the over two lanes that were going in my direction. Their was no median, just a roughly 12" wide curb running about 200' and then meeting up with a real median further up the road.
This intersection was dimly lit, no relectors on the curb, not painted white, no signage and was impossible to see. I was going about 20 mph, no cell phone, no drinks, no distractions. Where the curb first started, the face of the concrete curb had been "shaved" down at a 45 degree angle by what must have been a jackhammer or other piece of similar equipment. It had obviously also been hit by others as well.
Towed to Walnut Creek Porsche - estimate $8k - $10k of damage under my 2008 997s cab with 11,000 miles. Radiators, cooling system, fans all need replacement.
Reported to insurance yesterday but would love to take action against the City for what seems like a completely absurd road condition (at least at night).
Am I crazy to even think about being successful by going against the City? At a minimum, I will encourage insurance company to subrogate against the City if they have any interest but would lideally like to get City to pay 100%, including my deductible and therefore hopefully mitigate insurance premium increases.
On one hand, feel like an idiot for hitting this but on the other hand, I am very angry at this absurd road condition. The curb is there presumably to keep someone from taking a left turn across two lanes of traffic coming out of the road I was turning into - not the other way around.
Sorry for long whine - thoughts?
This intersection was dimly lit, no relectors on the curb, not painted white, no signage and was impossible to see. I was going about 20 mph, no cell phone, no drinks, no distractions. Where the curb first started, the face of the concrete curb had been "shaved" down at a 45 degree angle by what must have been a jackhammer or other piece of similar equipment. It had obviously also been hit by others as well.
Towed to Walnut Creek Porsche - estimate $8k - $10k of damage under my 2008 997s cab with 11,000 miles. Radiators, cooling system, fans all need replacement.
Reported to insurance yesterday but would love to take action against the City for what seems like a completely absurd road condition (at least at night).
Am I crazy to even think about being successful by going against the City? At a minimum, I will encourage insurance company to subrogate against the City if they have any interest but would lideally like to get City to pay 100%, including my deductible and therefore hopefully mitigate insurance premium increases.
On one hand, feel like an idiot for hitting this but on the other hand, I am very angry at this absurd road condition. The curb is there presumably to keep someone from taking a left turn across two lanes of traffic coming out of the road I was turning into - not the other way around.
Sorry for long whine - thoughts?
More recently, in '96 turned into hotel parking lot in Milpitas and right in the middle of the drive was a curbed island. Another 2 tires and 2 wheels.
Take pics of the scene of the accident. I'm not a lawyer but my opinion is the city street department is resposible for ensuring lanes are well marked and obstructions are highlighted.
More and more I see -- especially where road construction is ongoing -- ever more sloppy lane markings, even markings that tend to direct the driver into things, so you may have a "case".
Drivers of cars that have encountered potholes and had their vehicles suffer damage have been succesful in filing claims against CalTrans and possibly even city/county street/highway departments. Worth a try.
My belief is the insurance company could care less and will not pursue this but check with your carrier. I hope I'm wrong.
Walnut Creek (Stead) Porsche a good dealer -- bought my Cayman S there -- and your car will be as good as new again in no time.
Sincerely,
Macster.
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03-22-2010, 02:32 AM
#9
Poseur
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The roadways need to have such things fully visible at all times. I consider it their fault not to have it illuminated adequately. I see this periodically in areas. I wish you the best of luck in your pursuit. They have a responsibility to make the roadway visible and backed up with signs.
03-22-2010, 11:22 AM
#10
Nordschleife Master
I have friend that have had wheels paid for by the city of Seattle .
1: find who is responsible - do not assume the city
2: take pictures at the same time
3: the city, county and stage will have claim documents
4: lawyer up unless you have lots of free time
1: find who is responsible - do not assume the city
2: take pictures at the same time
3: the city, county and stage will have claim documents
4: lawyer up unless you have lots of free time
03-22-2010, 03:12 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Filing a claim with the City may be worth your time, since your damages
are fairly high.
Generally, a municipality has a duty to provide safe and well-marked
streets for its drivers.
The City has the same duty for potholes, uneven surfaces, missing
road signs, etc. The key here is that the City "Knew" about the
road defect.
The burden which you, as a citizen making a claim against the City, is proving
that the City had "knowledge" of the problem and failed to correct
it.
It would be beneficial if you knew other people who had similar accidents
or experiences with this stretch of road. I would take numerous photographs
of the roadway at the same time of night when your accident occurred.
If this road has been like this for some time, the City should have known
about this problem and as such, had a duty to correct the known problem.
are fairly high.
Generally, a municipality has a duty to provide safe and well-marked
streets for its drivers.
The City has the same duty for potholes, uneven surfaces, missing
road signs, etc. The key here is that the City "Knew" about the
road defect.
The burden which you, as a citizen making a claim against the City, is proving
that the City had "knowledge" of the problem and failed to correct
it.
It would be beneficial if you knew other people who had similar accidents
or experiences with this stretch of road. I would take numerous photographs
of the roadway at the same time of night when your accident occurred.
If this road has been like this for some time, the City should have known
about this problem and as such, had a duty to correct the known problem.
03-22-2010, 04:21 PM
#12
Drifting
Two things to look at:
1) What are the DOT standards that determine how that section of roadway is to be constructed (be it federal, state, county, city). There is a traffic/civil engineering standard that applies to the roadway, things put on it and how they should look. Eg signs must be a certain size, color, etc. There should be similar for road surface/curbs/dividers. Is this divider curb installation compliant with that code/standard?
2) What are the specs for the road and who signed off on accepting it after completion of construction?
If the rules are that curbs or other raised surfaces in the roadway are to be painted with reflective paint, or have reflective sings posted, then this construction is non-compliant. If the city accepted, or better yet, performed the construction, then they are clearly liable as they opened an non-compliant (eg unfinished construction) road way to public traffic.
Thats what I'd argue. But I don't know what the codes are for the surface streets. maybe invisible mounds and curbs are to code.
1) What are the DOT standards that determine how that section of roadway is to be constructed (be it federal, state, county, city). There is a traffic/civil engineering standard that applies to the roadway, things put on it and how they should look. Eg signs must be a certain size, color, etc. There should be similar for road surface/curbs/dividers. Is this divider curb installation compliant with that code/standard?
2) What are the specs for the road and who signed off on accepting it after completion of construction?
If the rules are that curbs or other raised surfaces in the roadway are to be painted with reflective paint, or have reflective sings posted, then this construction is non-compliant. If the city accepted, or better yet, performed the construction, then they are clearly liable as they opened an non-compliant (eg unfinished construction) road way to public traffic.
Thats what I'd argue. But I don't know what the codes are for the surface streets. maybe invisible mounds and curbs are to code.
03-22-2010, 05:32 PM
#13
I doubt it will be worth your time / effort to seriously pursue something against the city, esp if you need to hire counsel. It may depend on how much you value your time or see this as a matter of principle.
03-22-2010, 08:59 PM
#14
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The kind of attitude displayed here really pizzes me off...
****e happens - and ****e happens when you do stupid things - quit looking for someone to blame/sue when said ****e happens.
Geezuz guys, we whine about all the freeloaders, taxes, big government, healthcare, yada yada yada - and then when it hits our personal pocket books we look for someone to pick up the tab.
And don't tell me it's different - it sure as shootin' isn't different, and if you're driving a 997 you better be able to pay for the things you break when you're behind the wheel.
As a matter of fact - ALMOST EXACTLY the same thing happened to me about a year ago - foggy, dark night and I was lost and hit a stupid curb median with no reflectors - just a curb where normally a solid white line would be. No excuse - I screwed up. Sure, if there had been a flashing light or a reflector I wouldn't have hit it - but it was still the kind of risk and responsibility I assume when I get behind the wheel.
Mine cost me about $9 grand including both wheels on passenger side, etc. etc.
We gotta change our attitudes about who pays the freight and assumes what risk in our everyday lives guys.
****e happens - and ****e happens when you do stupid things - quit looking for someone to blame/sue when said ****e happens.
Geezuz guys, we whine about all the freeloaders, taxes, big government, healthcare, yada yada yada - and then when it hits our personal pocket books we look for someone to pick up the tab.
And don't tell me it's different - it sure as shootin' isn't different, and if you're driving a 997 you better be able to pay for the things you break when you're behind the wheel.
As a matter of fact - ALMOST EXACTLY the same thing happened to me about a year ago - foggy, dark night and I was lost and hit a stupid curb median with no reflectors - just a curb where normally a solid white line would be. No excuse - I screwed up. Sure, if there had been a flashing light or a reflector I wouldn't have hit it - but it was still the kind of risk and responsibility I assume when I get behind the wheel.
Mine cost me about $9 grand including both wheels on passenger side, etc. etc.
We gotta change our attitudes about who pays the freight and assumes what risk in our everyday lives guys.
