Dave's911

Hi Guys, I need some advice again.

Getting close to making an offer on a 2007 4S and hopefuly becoming an "official" member here.
After a couple of months of researching on this forum and looking around I've found a 9114S in Northern California that I like.
It's Cobalt Blue with Stone Grey Full Leather interior and has 16,500 miles on the clock. It's being sold by a dealer as a CPO'd vehicle. They're asking $69,999, which I think is high based on what I've seen.

The full list of options include:
803 - Carbon Package
453 - Carbon Str Whl Multifctn
X69 - Carbon Door Sill Mdl Insignia
XSC - Porsche Crest in Headrest
XRR - 19" Carrera Sport Wheel
XME - Rear Ctr Cons Painted Extr Clr
XLF - Sport Exhaust System
P15 - Power Seat Package
680 - Bose High End Sound Package
672 - Extended Navigation Module
666 - Module for Telephone PCM
640 - Sport Chrono Package Plus
342 - Heated Front Seats
267 - Self Dimming Mirrors
M6G - Stone Grey Floor Mats

My guess is, if the previous owner was lucky, the most they paid was around $55K for the trade in. KBB shows retail at around $68K for a CPO'd 4S. Which is higher than I'd expected.

So what do you guys think is a reasonable offer to make? Looks like they've only had the car on their lot for a couple of weeks.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Dave.

Para82

It seems like dealers are asking for more money on these used 997's.

6 months ago I would of said 56-58k for this car. I wouldn't pay more than 59k for this even if the market is stronger now.

Jastx

Well, it's more highly optioned than most that you see. Probably not another one like it just around the corner. The dealer may feel this more special car will find that special buyer.

Dave's911

Thanks for your input guys. I'm thinking of offering low 60's. We'll see where that gets me.
Dave.

raspritz

That's a fair asking price, frankly.

simsgw

I suspect it was worth a bit more than that on trade-in. Not that everyone gets the best price the market will support, but you never know. Some do even better. Trading for a car the dealer badly wanted to move, what is really a discount on the newer car is made to look like a higher trade-in for the 'old' car. I took a sales manager aside once and arranged for him to do just that, so my wife would see a better price for her cherished, but not very valuable, old car. She wanted it to be worth a thousand bucks. He really wanted to charge her to tow it away. Of course, I knew what he could actually afford to sell the new one for before we went in the door. We left with a good price, albeit slightly higher than he could have offered because he gave her the thousand in trade. She was happy with the new car [truck actually] and didn't feel like she threw away her old car.

Conversely, if the dealer got that 2007 at auction, bidding against other dealers, he probably paid very close to the market wholesale price I'm about to quote. No motivation to skew the price either way for buyer emotion in those sales.

Our insurance company offers us access to Zag new and used car pricing service. It's not the only one obviously, but it's all I have handy. Yrrialis has others to consult I believe. I put in my recently purchased car first for a credibility check on Zag. The result looks plausible for prices paid in that auction situation I described. No fat in other words.

Zag says a 2007, with the equipment options you mention that they allow for in their web applet, would wholesale for $58k. Since we're knowledgable here, just as a dealer would be, we know the car you're looking at has some desirable options not considered by that applet. The PSE alone is a significant bump. The Sports Chrono package is another, and several of those appearance options play well in the showroom. All in all, a sharp buyer who traded that car in should get $62k would be my guess from the Zag data and that option list. Certainly no worse than $60 unless the condition has problems you haven't mentioned.

Quite aside from the inescapable need for the dealer to make a buck, when he turns it around for you, he's adding a CPO which to my mind is worth a lot more than an aftermarket service contract, whoever sells it. I would figure another $3000 worth of value in that alone. If I were negotiating, I would mentally tag his out-the-door cost at 64-65k plus tax and license. Or, in California $71k. Add some profit to that and you're looking at nothing less than $73k out the door. I don't know how useful Kelly is for Porsches, but $68k is consistent with what we just figured using Zag wholesale data. That's a little better than the 70k he's asking, so you have room for improvement, but not an outrageous amount. And I doubt KBB takes into account things like PSE and Sport Chrono either. But dealers do because knowledgable buyers do.

If you can get that $73k price out the door, or within a couple of thousand of it, or even just $75,000, I'd say you'll have a good car at a good price. If for no other reason, those are very distinctive well-chosen options. If you like them at all, you'll love them after a week in the car. That's what I mean. Your car won't look or sound like any other S you're likely to see in any given week around Porsche central. (Silicon Valley to non-Californians.) I would walk around it to check them out if I saw you in a parking lot. That's my personal test for appearance options.

From Zag and what a couple of others have said, I think you're in the range where the drool test is all that really matters. How much do you drool when you remember the test drive? Test your own reaction and buy what you love. Don't let a couple of thousand on a car this great make or break the deal. Even his full asking price needn't make you feel screwed. Negotiate of course. Don't let him see you drool.

Gary

Izzone

I sold my 2007 C4S with a $106k msrp, 13,500 miles for $59,500 a couple of months ago.

This was to a dealer, not on a trade

Dave's911

Some really interesting input and comments. Gary, I appreciate the the time you took to respond. Very well thought out, certainly gives me a few things to think about.

Dave.

DRJMK

sounds like low 60's...do you really like the car??? If so, get it. If not, keep looking. The real deals will come out next year when the 991 makes its' appearance.

KeninBlaine

I think your plan to offer low 60's is reasonable. I expect the original MSRP for that car exceeded $110k. My experience has been that most dealers will come down from asking price, especially if they've sat on the car for a month or more. Mine came down 12% from his original asking price when I bought it in January. Like others have said, if you really want all the options this car has, don't get too stingy. If they aren't too important to you, then take your time. Finding the car with the right options, assuming you know what you specifically want, can require a lot of patience. Good luck in your search.

tejoe

I like the car, other than Blue (this just to pi...s off some people), and the starting price is not outrageous; 4S's aren't a dime a dozen like the C2S's. Couple of questions for you to ask:

1) How long on the CPO?
2) New tires or do they have just enough tread to get the CPO?
3) You say 'full leather' but then "complete option list" does not show this?

Like Ken I'd hope for/expect at least 8% off an a 'no trade' deal.

Good luck

Dave's911

I have had a couple of discussions with the dealer at this point. It looks like he'll come down a couple of thousand, but not much more.
I plan to go look at the car this weekend (I'm in southern Cali, car is northern), if all is good I'll probably proceed with the purchase. Will try to negotiate a little more, after all, it is the end of the month.
As many of you have said, if its the right car, then a couple of thousand shouldn't stand in my way.
I have been looking since December. I like the the color and the options, so that's probably it

To answer a couple of questions, CPO is good until April 2013. It does have full leather.

Thanks again to everyone for your input, hope to be posting a new owner thread next week

Dave.

MusicCity_997

Keep us posted and good luck!!!

Macster

Deserves a "bump" to remind you to post pics. I drove by dealer today and noticed car gone. Talked to Al and he said you left with car about an hour ago.

Hope you didn't run into much rain on your drive back south.

Congrats on the new car. Cobalt Blue is a very nice color and a rather unusual color. Way too many silver and grey and black Porsches around.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Dave's911

Thanks Marc. Just about to post a new owner thread with pics. Had a great drive home, even in the rain. Can't stop smiling.
Thanks again for your help.
Dave.