PDK vs 6sp
01-15-2010 | 05:46 AM
#61
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From: West Los Angeles & Truckee, CA
The thing that amuses me about these discussions is an assumption by some - car designers included - that using a 6-speed in traffic is somehow a burden. Makes me think of that scene in the WALL-E movie when people have everything done by machines. Surely it's not a huge hassle to actually use the left leg for a clutch?
Maybe years ago when cars had nasty three-speed column shifting crash-boxes with heavy clutches and your every day 6 cylinder mainstreet car engine produced 80-85bhp (because they did - really!) that made sense. But your modern manual car generally has a light clutch, seemless shift, reliable synchro's and an engine that produces 200bhp or more with a very nice flat torque curve.
My 6-speed .2 is my DD and I commute in it every day through the centre of a 4-milllion person city. Each trip is enjoyable. Last week I tried a PDK for an hour or so which was nice but just another auto. Yes, with revs on the changes were fun and smooth and all that but by then I was heading way over the speed limit even on a country road. And I really didn't like how it decided to go from 6th or 7th down to a rev-limiter 2nd when I accelerated firmly. All I wanted was a bit more go.
Maybe years ago when cars had nasty three-speed column shifting crash-boxes with heavy clutches and your every day 6 cylinder mainstreet car engine produced 80-85bhp (because they did - really!) that made sense. But your modern manual car generally has a light clutch, seemless shift, reliable synchro's and an engine that produces 200bhp or more with a very nice flat torque curve.
My 6-speed .2 is my DD and I commute in it every day through the centre of a 4-milllion person city. Each trip is enjoyable. Last week I tried a PDK for an hour or so which was nice but just another auto. Yes, with revs on the changes were fun and smooth and all that but by then I was heading way over the speed limit even on a country road. And I really didn't like how it decided to go from 6th or 7th down to a rev-limiter 2nd when I accelerated firmly. All I wanted was a bit more go.
Enjoyed them all.You can shift PDK manually too - you do know that. Stick it in M and you can control the shifts yourself (just with no clutch). Going along in 6th, drop it down to 5th for a bit more go.
BTW - In auto It wont go from 6th to 2nd unless you floor it.
01-15-2010 | 07:14 AM
#62
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From: Newport Beach, CA and Melbourne, Australia
PDK is far from just another auto as you put it. I live in LA and this is my fourth 911 and daily drove all the others through far more traffic than you deal with unfortunately Enjoyed them all.
You can shift PDK manually too - you do know that. Stick it in M and you can control the shifts yourself (just with no clutch). Going along in 6th, drop it down to 5th for a bit more go.
BTW - In auto It wont go from 6th to 2nd unless you floor it.
Enjoyed them all.You can shift PDK manually too - you do know that. Stick it in M and you can control the shifts yourself (just with no clutch). Going along in 6th, drop it down to 5th for a bit more go.
BTW - In auto It wont go from 6th to 2nd unless you floor it.
I've driven in LA quite a bit (and New York, Paris, London - where I lived for 2 years and spent 6 months driving for a living) and yes, I agree LA traffic can get pretty bad. I've never felt it's as bad as often made out though.
Doesn't change my comments. Maybe if I lived in a hilly city I'd feel different but otherwise, nope.
01-15-2010 | 08:55 AM
#63
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 164
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From: Florida
I'm not sure why everyone is arguing to try to convince those who think differently. It's like colors - a matter of taste.
The beauty is that there is a choice. Those is don't want PDK don't have to get it those who do, can.
I went in thinking I only wanted stick. Still had to try the PDK "because" and after a few visits there were enough pros FOR ME to make the decision to get the pdk.
The beauty is that there is a choice. Those is don't want PDK don't have to get it those who do, can.
I went in thinking I only wanted stick. Still had to try the PDK "because" and after a few visits there were enough pros FOR ME to make the decision to get the pdk.
01-15-2010 | 10:20 AM
#64
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From: West Los Angeles & Truckee, CA
[QUOTE=aggie57;7224710]Thanks, yes I do know moving the level left moves into manual. It's weird though - if I slowed down it shifted down automatically but as you speed up again it stays in the lower gears. Least that's what I found - is that normal?
QUOTE]
If you're in manual and you are lets say in 4th and come to a stop. It will downshift into 1st automatically. If you are in 5th and slow down to 5mphfor example, it will down shift to 2nd so you arent in 5th at 5mph. Only downshifts if absolutely necessary. Given that you are in M, it wont upshift for you - just bounce off rev limiter if you dont shift.
QUOTE]
If you're in manual and you are lets say in 4th and come to a stop. It will downshift into 1st automatically. If you are in 5th and slow down to 5mphfor example, it will down shift to 2nd so you arent in 5th at 5mph. Only downshifts if absolutely necessary. Given that you are in M, it wont upshift for you - just bounce off rev limiter if you dont shift.
01-15-2010 | 01:10 PM
#65
Advanced
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: San Francisco
It's interesting that people here reference the lack of a clutch pedal in Ferraris as a case for PDK... but there doesn't seem to be much discussion that you can't get PDK in a GT2, GT3, or GT3 RS.
I understand that PDK is quite good, and offer no argument to the contrary. But I, for one, passed over some 09's because of it. As much-discussed above, it goes to preference. And I live in San Francisco, which is known for the occasional hill.
I understand that PDK is quite good, and offer no argument to the contrary. But I, for one, passed over some 09's because of it. As much-discussed above, it goes to preference. And I live in San Francisco, which is known for the occasional hill.
01-15-2010 | 01:48 PM
#66
Still plays with cars.
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From: Montreal
The PDK transmission is incompatible with cars using the M964 engine such as the GT2, 3, 3RS and the 2009 Turbo. It is available on the 2010 Turbo which uses the new 9A1 engine.
If the 9A1 engine migrates to the GT cars, it is likely that PDK will be available there too.
If the 9A1 engine migrates to the GT cars, it is likely that PDK will be available there too.
01-15-2010 | 02:25 PM
#67
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From: Newport Beach, CA and Melbourne, Australia
[QUOTE=rodsky;7224929]
Thanks. I must say that one thing which impressed me was the creep function. That's handy and seemed to work very smoothly. Much better than the BMW DCT system which seems to need a prod on the accelerator.
Thanks, yes I do know moving the level left moves into manual. It's weird though - if I slowed down it shifted down automatically but as you speed up again it stays in the lower gears. Least that's what I found - is that normal?
QUOTE]
If you're in manual and you are lets say in 4th and come to a stop. It will downshift into 1st automatically. If you are in 5th and slow down to 5mphfor example, it will down shift to 2nd so you arent in 5th at 5mph. Only downshifts if absolutely necessary. Given that you are in M, it wont upshift for you - just bounce off rev limiter if you dont shift.
QUOTE]
If you're in manual and you are lets say in 4th and come to a stop. It will downshift into 1st automatically. If you are in 5th and slow down to 5mphfor example, it will down shift to 2nd so you arent in 5th at 5mph. Only downshifts if absolutely necessary. Given that you are in M, it wont upshift for you - just bounce off rev limiter if you dont shift.
01-15-2010 | 02:27 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Newport Beach, CA and Melbourne, Australia
It's interesting that people here reference the lack of a clutch pedal in Ferraris as a case for PDK... but there doesn't seem to be much discussion that you can't get PDK in a GT2, GT3, or GT3 RS.
I understand that PDK is quite good, and offer no argument to the contrary. But I, for one, passed over some 09's because of it. As much-discussed above, it goes to preference. And I live in San Francisco, which is known for the occasional hill.
I understand that PDK is quite good, and offer no argument to the contrary. But I, for one, passed over some 09's because of it. As much-discussed above, it goes to preference. And I live in San Francisco, which is known for the occasional hill.
01-15-2010 | 02:48 PM
#70
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From: Newport Beach, CA and Melbourne, Australia
01-15-2010 | 02:52 PM
#71
Three Wheelin'
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From: ATL
- may as well get an MT. 
Actually, I do sort of get what he's saying - my BMW SMG started up in manual - you had to put in "sissy mode"
if you wanted that (and believe me, you didn't - horrible "auto" mode). I also get where the other guy is coming from with the shift direction - but only because the SMG was that way and just became habit. PDK shifting I think is misunderstood - once one realizes that a slight twist of the wrist is all that is needed for a shift - you can almost just "think it", then the craftiness of what Porsche has done is evident (and why the lever needs to go forward too for consistency) - there's really no "button pushing" needed. Which make the new giant paddle option seem quaint, but again, more choice for different strokes.
01-15-2010 | 02:56 PM
#72
Three Wheelin'
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From: ATL
And now you can also order them from Porsche (or as an upgrade ordering the Parts from PAG), but it seems like you then have to forgo the multi-function steering wheel, if that matters. https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...ghlight=paddle
01-15-2010 | 03:18 PM
#73
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2002
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From: London, UK
Curious..why would you consider San Francisco to be Melbourne?
Not an immediate association I'd make.
FWIW Melbourne's sister city is Boston...and having grown up near Melbourne and studied in Boston can discern some logic to that relationship
Not an immediate association I'd make.
FWIW Melbourne's sister city is Boston...and having grown up near Melbourne and studied in Boston can discern some logic to that relationship
01-15-2010 | 04:24 PM
#74
AutoX
Joined: Nov 2008
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6spd daily driver
As the owner of an 09 c2 6-spd I can say that the manual has yet to get intrusive and still brings a joy to my face during my daily commute. This seems to be an issue for many which I do not share. I love that instant thottle response and feeling of direct connection to the drivetrain. Only thing I wish was that I had a longer final gear like the 7th gear as does the PDKsuch that cruising on the freeway @ 75 would be closer to 2krpms than the 2900k I currently hit. Looks like its good for 2 extra mpg just having that longer gear and I can't see much downside other than than only being able to hit 178mph instead of the 180 I could theoretically hit. Again heres to the 6spd---still loving it even putting on 1000miles/month
01-15-2010 | 05:39 PM
#75
Race Director
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From: North Bay Area, CA
As the owner of an 09 c2 6-spd I can say that the manual has yet to get intrusive and still brings a joy to my face during my daily commute. This seems to be an issue for many which I do not share. I love that instant thottle response and feeling of direct connection to the drivetrain.