Why car dealers and car salespeople are not to be trusted or respected!!!
07-11-2009, 12:17 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
So why not just have it where we go to the "Build Your Own" site, check the boxes we want, give our AMEX number and address, and in a few weeks the UPS dude shows up with the car of our dreams? Just like Zappos? Try it our for 30 days - don't like it; ship it back for return or exchange it for a different color?
You Google around for the best price - maybe Amazon has it for less and free shipping, or maybe a good deal from eBay...what could be simpler?
You Google around for the best price - maybe Amazon has it for less and free shipping, or maybe a good deal from eBay...what could be simpler?
07-11-2009, 01:01 PM
#32
Let's face it, salesmen or saleswomen are all the type of people
who jump from job to job looking for "greener grass." One
month they're selling insurance, the next month cars, the next
month computer software.
Nobody goes to school to become a salesperson. It is just
something that happens when all other avenues in life prove to
be unsuccessful.
There are never a shortage of companies/businesses offering
salespeople $150k - $250k plus per year. These are Pure pipedreams.
In my higher priced neighborhood in the Midwest,
there is not one salesperson living here. It is full of doctors,
lawyers, and successful business owners. These are professionals with
ethics and character.
who jump from job to job looking for "greener grass." One
month they're selling insurance, the next month cars, the next
month computer software.
Nobody goes to school to become a salesperson. It is just
something that happens when all other avenues in life prove to
be unsuccessful.
There are never a shortage of companies/businesses offering
salespeople $150k - $250k plus per year. These are Pure pipedreams.
In my higher priced neighborhood in the Midwest,
there is not one salesperson living here. It is full of doctors,
lawyers, and successful business owners. These are professionals with
ethics and character.
I am not a car salesman but I have been in professional sales for 25 years. My next door neighbor is Director of Family Practice at a large health care provider in Seattle. My neighbor across the street is an anesthesiologist.
How can that be?
Perhaps doing business the right way - with ethics and the utmost respect for my customers has made me somewhat successful.
All sales people are not scum - just like all lawyers aren't ambulance chasers.
07-11-2009, 01:05 PM
#33
Drifting
Let me add on this topic that there are a few really good sales guys in the Porsche world. Alfie is one of them. He has been on this board for years and has been a wealth of information. Unfortunately, I'd have to categorize him as the top 2%. I make it a habit to stop at P-Car dealers when traveling on business. 90+% of the time, it is just another car salesman. I like the idea posted above to just fill out a web form to order a new car. I buy my DDs over the phone and allocate an afternoon. I get great deals that way.
My dad was a very successful sales guy selling aerospace parts into the Pentagon. He even set up a company of manfacturers representatives that were quite successful during the Reagan years. His type of selling was ALL about the relationship. I learned a lot from him as he would take me to business dinners at a young age. Even in his retirement, most of his friends were previous customers....
Thanks - though I plan to hold onto that car for a long time. There is so much pride in ownership. I installed a glass door to my garage so that I can look right at it while walking down the hall. Ah, the finer things in life...
-Blake
07-11-2009, 02:44 PM
#34
Cap'n Insane the Engorged
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There are two types of jobs in this world: Sales and sales support.
To determine a trade in value, come armed w/knowledge. Use Edmunds ( usually low ), NADA ( middle ) and KBB ( usually high ). Stress the positives about the car - one owner, clean car fax, options, etc. They gave you an insulting offer, but to insult everyone in the same profession is myopic. Some of us do this, because we love it. It's fun to be around these cars all day, have access to each variant, meet interesting people, and to help them realize their dream. I can understand not trusting, trust is earned.
FWIW: My house is paid off and my property taxes are higher than the average families annual income.
To determine a trade in value, come armed w/knowledge. Use Edmunds ( usually low ), NADA ( middle ) and KBB ( usually high ). Stress the positives about the car - one owner, clean car fax, options, etc. They gave you an insulting offer, but to insult everyone in the same profession is myopic. Some of us do this, because we love it. It's fun to be around these cars all day, have access to each variant, meet interesting people, and to help them realize their dream. I can understand not trusting, trust is earned.
FWIW: My house is paid off and my property taxes are higher than the average families annual income.
07-11-2009, 03:06 PM
#35
You seem to be a stand-up guy based on your postings here and a straight shooter and not the typical car sales person that some of these postings are describing. HOWEVER, I'm not sure your intent/meaning/purpose of posting this last sentence in your response above. I would assume you wouldn't state something like this to a prospective buyer who walked into your dealership, so not sure why you mention that here (where there is already a suspicion of sales people being out of touch with reality and/or being smug). You do know that some of the people who frequent these forums are buyers in the market.
07-11-2009, 03:26 PM
#36
Cap'n Insane the Engorged
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Rob,
You seem to be a stand-up guy based on your postings here and a straight shooter and not the typical car sales person that some of these postings are describing. HOWEVER, I'm not sure your intent/meaning/purpose of posting this last sentence in your response above. I would assume you wouldn't state something like this to a prospective buyer who walked into your dealership, so not sure why you mention that here (where there is already a suspicion of sales people being out of touch with reality and/or being smug). You do know that some of the people who frequent these forums are buyers in the market.
You seem to be a stand-up guy based on your postings here and a straight shooter and not the typical car sales person that some of these postings are describing. HOWEVER, I'm not sure your intent/meaning/purpose of posting this last sentence in your response above. I would assume you wouldn't state something like this to a prospective buyer who walked into your dealership, so not sure why you mention that here (where there is already a suspicion of sales people being out of touch with reality and/or being smug). You do know that some of the people who frequent these forums are buyers in the market.
I posted it because of the previous comments regarding sales people not being able to hold down a steady job and living in inferior neighborhoods to Porsche buyers. FWIW: I did not pay off my house selling cars, I've been at this less than a year. But several of my colleagues who've been at this for 15+ years live in very nice homes in very nice neighborhoods.
It's just like any profession, there are going to be jerks and disingenuous people. The current economy is weeding those people out rather quickly.
07-11-2009, 03:38 PM
#37
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Rob,
Thanks for the quick, detailed, and honest response. Stand-up guy you are. Wish other's acted in a similar manner. As you stated, hope the current economy weeds them out and the stand-up one's stay.
Rob,
Thanks for the quick, detailed, and honest response. Stand-up guy you are. Wish other's acted in a similar manner. As you stated, hope the current economy weeds them out and the stand-up one's stay.
07-11-2009, 03:40 PM
#38
Pro
Never had a bad experience with my dealer. General Manager, Salesman and Service Manager are all great and have helped me to become a generally satisfied Porsche owner. Nothing is perfect but overall it has been a good run and I'll continue with these people as long as I'm a porsche owner.
07-11-2009, 06:22 PM
#39
Advanced
Don't like the deal? Don't take it, or negotiate a better one. They're not "wrong" for their offer, they just don't want to give you as much for a commodity Porsche as you'd like them to...put it on eBay or Autotrader and deal with it yourself--you'll get more anyway, of course.
07-11-2009, 06:27 PM
#40
Cap'n Insane the Engorged
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07-11-2009, 06:37 PM
#41
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Rob, Stoppie and Alfie are three great people I've come to know who are honest, straightforward and more than willing to oblige good information when asked.
There are handfuls of really great sales people on this planet....you just have to find them. Sure, we've all had 'that' experience with car sales people, but don't lump them all in one basket. I have met, and still stay in touch with a few of the folks who sold me cars over the years as they were standup, honest people I enjoyed dealing with.
I've been in touch with a few dealers over the past few months regarding the 'incentive' deals in May on a Turbo Cab, yet could not cut the deal as close as I wanted. There was one coupe that was as close to what I'd have ordered (except not a cab), and we ended up 8k apart. They would not budge, and I was at the max for what I considered fair value on the deal. I understood their position, they understood mine, and I walked. No big deal, no great loss on either side (all but one got sold eventually), and no harsh words. They knew that I was armed with valid information about the cost of the car and I was putting profit into the deal, but taking the incentive in full. OK, not every salesperson is going to do it, but some smarter ones would have loved that deal, getting a car off floor plan, sold and booked for allocations, and some profit to keep the lights on. No, not the same profit as a year ago, but these are different times.
The funniest/saddest situation occurred recently when I called a guy who's been in the business for a very long time, whom I've known and done business with, and inquired about the new incentives, about locating the perfect TT Cab if possible just to see if it exists (I have a particular list of things I'd want on it), and asking about the pricing structure.
The response: "we're going to hang onto the turbos we have in stock, and anything that comes in, probably not going to offer discounts on them, this market is going to turn real soon and we need to be ready to have these cars ready to go at list or near list price".....
I just smiled when I got that message, shook my head, and realized I won't likely be buying my next Porsche from him. Not sure what he's smoking, but no matter...I will find what I want, when I want it, at a price that's fair, and so be it.
Oh well.......
There are handfuls of really great sales people on this planet....you just have to find them. Sure, we've all had 'that' experience with car sales people, but don't lump them all in one basket. I have met, and still stay in touch with a few of the folks who sold me cars over the years as they were standup, honest people I enjoyed dealing with.
I've been in touch with a few dealers over the past few months regarding the 'incentive' deals in May on a Turbo Cab, yet could not cut the deal as close as I wanted. There was one coupe that was as close to what I'd have ordered (except not a cab), and we ended up 8k apart. They would not budge, and I was at the max for what I considered fair value on the deal. I understood their position, they understood mine, and I walked. No big deal, no great loss on either side (all but one got sold eventually), and no harsh words. They knew that I was armed with valid information about the cost of the car and I was putting profit into the deal, but taking the incentive in full. OK, not every salesperson is going to do it, but some smarter ones would have loved that deal, getting a car off floor plan, sold and booked for allocations, and some profit to keep the lights on. No, not the same profit as a year ago, but these are different times.
The funniest/saddest situation occurred recently when I called a guy who's been in the business for a very long time, whom I've known and done business with, and inquired about the new incentives, about locating the perfect TT Cab if possible just to see if it exists (I have a particular list of things I'd want on it), and asking about the pricing structure.
The response: "we're going to hang onto the turbos we have in stock, and anything that comes in, probably not going to offer discounts on them, this market is going to turn real soon and we need to be ready to have these cars ready to go at list or near list price".....
I just smiled when I got that message, shook my head, and realized I won't likely be buying my next Porsche from him. Not sure what he's smoking, but no matter...I will find what I want, when I want it, at a price that's fair, and so be it.
Oh well.......
__________________
Eric
Chief Plug Guy
BumperPlugs.com
2022 GT3 Touring
2009 997 Turbo Cab
2018 M2 6sp
Gone but not forgotten
2004 C4S Cabriolet
1999 C2 Cab
Eric
Chief Plug Guy
BumperPlugs.com
2022 GT3 Touring
2009 997 Turbo Cab
2018 M2 6sp
Gone but not forgotten
2004 C4S Cabriolet
1999 C2 Cab
07-11-2009, 06:47 PM
#42
sweet deals in philly area
if anyone is shopping...a certain philly dealer has some UNREAL deals on 2009 997. FWIW, I have no interest in this other than spreading the joy...got my 2008 997.1 last week.
Ask for Howard if you inquire, he'd love to sell a car or two
Ask for Howard if you inquire, he'd love to sell a car or two
07-11-2009, 06:55 PM
#43
Race Director
Think one has to keep things in perspective. Rule #1 is anything a car salesman says is 1) Intended to get you to buy a car as soon as possibile and 2) Pay as much for as possible.
Some of obviously better at getting this germ of a thought across with more tact intelligence and subtly.
I'd not let a comment like you report salesman made deter me from shopping for a car from that dealer were I interested in a car dealer had in stock or could order for me and was in market for a car. Sometimes those places that put in tough first impression cave in more readily when faced with well informed and motivated buyer.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Some of obviously better at getting this germ of a thought across with more tact intelligence and subtly.
I'd not let a comment like you report salesman made deter me from shopping for a car from that dealer were I interested in a car dealer had in stock or could order for me and was in market for a car. Sometimes those places that put in tough first impression cave in more readily when faced with well informed and motivated buyer.
Sincerely,
Macster.
07-11-2009, 07:02 PM
#44
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re the jab re "all sales people" and "none living in the high end neighborhood"... that's a bit short cited, to the point of ignorance. I work in finance in sales, have an undergrad and carry the CFA. of the 9 sales people at our firm, 7 are either MBA, CFA or both. We all live comfortably. We sell b/c we like to work with people, more than working on the technical side of our business. Our income ebbs and flows with business levels, but we accept this component of the business model, as few will get ahead in life without taking on some business risk (risk vs reward). the 3 senior guys are all milliionares (the firm has done well over the years) and they continue to work as they enjoy the work.
and the comment that we're all in sales to some degree is dead on - if nobody sold, then no revenue would come into the business. you are one of two things in any business - a revenue center or a cost center.
My father sold HVAC controls and retired in his 50s. It was not the result of ripping people off, it was a product of building relationships, establishing trust, and taking care of customers, especially when there were problems.
and the comment that we're all in sales to some degree is dead on - if nobody sold, then no revenue would come into the business. you are one of two things in any business - a revenue center or a cost center.
My father sold HVAC controls and retired in his 50s. It was not the result of ripping people off, it was a product of building relationships, establishing trust, and taking care of customers, especially when there were problems.
+1
And to add to that:
To get a person who as a degree to admit that a person, let alone any person (in this case a sales person) w/o a degree can, will and does earn more than the person w/o a degree; is in their minds eye, to say their degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on. But that's not the real issue. The real issue is that top sales people can, will and do earn MORE than a lot of folks. It's risk/reward. They've higher risk then most of us, thus if they can pull it off and reap the benefits, kudos to them.
Some people and their arrogance, still takes me by surprise at times.
07-11-2009, 07:29 PM
#45
Still plays with cars.
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Speaking of arrogance, it appears that user cloak&dagger is Chris Sanner, aka likemystoppie? who is banned from Rennlist. This may help put his posts into context.
Regards,
Regards,