tooloud10

Wow, you're really making a name for yourself around here. Should we start generalizing about lawyers?

CDH911C2S

Maximize profits while maintaining ethical guidelines. Lying to secure more profit or commission is criminal in my eyes and should constitute fraud.

I believe part of the massive problems facing the auto industry stem, in part, from the fact that they are represented by the worst sales force. Short term goals are usually best served by maximizing profit, but when the business model is to start the negotiation with a lie or to follow the mantra, there is one born every minute, long-term goals will never be reached or sustained. It is truly a house of cards.

I do consulting work for the medical device industry(for profit)...Could you imagine getting a pace maker from a sales representative that lied about the cost or the function of the device or changed the cost of the device on an hourly basis.

Car dealers and Salespeople pretend to be ignorant whenever you inquire about the cost of a vehicle...they make a conscious decision to ignore their own acquired knowledge in the hope that we, the consumer, are ignorant or lazy.
If my client needed to purchase a bond and I pretended to not know the actual cost and responded with a hypothetical number hoping they would be ingorant enough to accept my words as the truth...I would be unethical.

I have yet to visit a dealership where they gave me a price that was fair to both parties. I had to aggressively negotiate, except with Stoppie.

This dealer really expected to make @ $40,000 on a single transaction for a car with an msrp of $125,000.

I really do appreciate the internet, it keeps the dealers on their toes..

dD/dt

Great points. A business whose mission statement is "maximize profit" doesn't last. To stick around, you need to provide good service, believe in what you do, and just show up every day. It's amazing how few people actually do those things, and when you realize that, you also realize that you have little true competition. Profit follows.

DRJMK

maybe Stoppie can get you a Gt3? I would definately contact him, if you haven't already. You are correct, he is honest and I miss him!

1Carnut

I am sorry, but I see nothing wrong with what happened, other then they wanted to make more money than they should have. There are good a bad dealers, just like there are doctors (trust me I know about this one, lawyers, and contractors. I'm sure things are very tight for most dealers, and the one you went to took the wrong approach, instead of being glad a customer has come back and treated them well, they decided to try and make as much as they could. I have to say though your car in todays market might not be worth that much more to a dealer. Look at the threads in here when buyers ask how much should I pay for, or is this a good deal.

grappa

Interesting topic and it just got me thinking. The last time I went to my doctor all he did was put in a few stitches. Thread is cheap and so is a few bandages. I am going to ask why I cannot just pay him a little over cost. Hey,now that I think about the subject,my lawyer never spent anything for my last visit. I guess I owe him nothing.
The point is about overhead. Something has to pay for that building and land and maintenance.Insurance,taxes,staff,interest,heat,light,cleaning,lawyers,a ccountants,not to mention risk,etc.
You can't go to a restaurant and bargain for your food and wine at a couple of percent over the food cost. "Cost" is not just the raw material but everything involved in bringing a consumer his product.
Remember Disneyland. You actually get nothing. The cost of that tour around the park is all in their overhead.

chuckla

Whatever you do, don't take low ball offers personally. The best defense to perceived poor offers (to buy or to sell) is to do your homework on comparables and be patient.

Jlangmd

Yes we should.

What do you call 4 lawyers at the bottom of a lake?
A good start.

A plane crashed over the atlantic. The good news is that there was a convention of lawyers on board. The bad news was that there were 6 empty seats.

What do you call 4 lawyers up to there neck in concrete?
Not enough concrete.

Oh yeah! I got a million of them!

John NY-Naples

+1

They are allowed to make a living. Maybe they were being a bit too greedy in this economy, but I don't see how a lousy offer translates into becoming not trustworthy.

blake

What percentage of the population can afford a $60K car TODAY? It would be hard to call that a commodity.

Conversely, I agree that a low ball offer is to be expected. Don't take it personally. Even though Porsche is a luxury brand, we tend to deal with volume sales guys. And let's be blunt -that is how most of them are compensated - per unit shipped. There is no glamour in selling cars though I am certain at one time there was...

Good luck.

-B

Alfie

I will only add a couple thoughts to this. If you haven't found a honest, straightforward salesperson yet, keep looking. There are a few of us out there. If you think Niello's numbers are stupid, shop around. If they are blatantly ripping you off, don't go back. easy enough.

Markets suck right now. Trade values are down because new car values are down. Good luck to Niello, though, if they can acquire trades at depressed values and sell their new cars at good economy values.

Also, I think at the top of every successful business, you will find a good salesperson. If they can't sell their product or service to someone else, no matter how great their product or idea or skill set, they won't make any money.

bbrc76

re the jab re "all sales people" and "none living in the high end neighborhood"... that's a bit short cited, to the point of ignorance. I work in finance in sales, have an undergrad and carry the CFA. of the 9 sales people at our firm, 7 are either MBA, CFA or both. We all live comfortably. We sell b/c we like to work with people, more than working on the technical side of our business. Our income ebbs and flows with business levels, but we accept this component of the business model, as few will get ahead in life without taking on some business risk (risk vs reward). the 3 senior guys are all milliionares (the firm has done well over the years) and they continue to work as they enjoy the work.

and the comment that we're all in sales to some degree is dead on - if nobody sold, then no revenue would come into the business. you are one of two things in any business - a revenue center or a cost center.

My father sold HVAC controls and retired in his 50s. It was not the result of ripping people off, it was a product of building relationships, establishing trust, and taking care of customers, especially when there were problems.

tooloud10

That's part of the reason I call it a commodity Porsche, even if that's not technically true. A mint '06 C4S with 15k miles might be some Rennlister's baby, but in the world of Porsches, it's just like all the other cars that the dealer isn't selling right now.

So, no, it's not a commodity in the normal sense, but it is in the sense that it doesn't stand out enough for someone to really want right now.

Now, let's talk about a deal on that beautiful Speedster of yours!

points

Love that car.

At Law

The reason no salespeople live in your neighborhood, is because they live in the nicer and bigger houses in the better part of town, without a big fat mortgage. They own it.

Guys like you, on the other hand, are up to your eyeballs in debt! Be careful, you may dislocate your arm while you pat yourself on the back so much.

j/k/ of course![/QUOTE]

Now you're the one making sweeping generalizations.