chago996

From above:
6. A lease starts a trend of perpetually paying a car payment. If you never paid a car payment and the average car payment in America was $350 a month, putting that $350 a month in a mutual fund that made 10% would become $791,171 in 30 years. That is astonishing, and what astonishes me more is that there are people out there that will continue to defend leasing cars and financing cars with no money down because the “maintenance costs” are so much lower for a new car. Give me a break.

Q from me: Say the difference between a 5 yr. lease payment and a 5 yr. finance payment between an identically priced 911 is $350 dollars/month. If you invest this $350 in a mutual fund at 10%, for five years, how much savings would you have? I bet you the savings plus would almost buy you another 911.

Trader220

Lease vs. buy is a personal decision. Don’t bank on that mutual fund paying 10%, yea they're out there but it’s not like money in the bank and you took some major hickeys last year.

I bought my e30 M3 brand new and then sold it to a leasing company who leased it back to me, that deal worked out very well since my payments were lower than in the buy scenario and I bought the car after 39 months and flipped it for 2 grand profit on the buyout. That’s a rare situation.

We were running a lease deal on new Cayenne S’s for 599 per month with 5k out of pocket over 36 months and 10k per year. I had a couple come in and look at a pre owned 2007 Q7 for 35 grand with 25k miles on it. The Cayenne S stickered for 72k so it was a loaded one. The lease payment was right around the finance payment on the Q7 with the same 5k down. At the end of 3 years on the Cayenne S they could walk away. At the end of three years on the Q7 they were now out of warrantee and had a car they were still out of equity on with 55k miles. The lease makes sense for them.

Rob in WA

I'm curious as to what funds guarantee a 10% return - after taxes and fees of course.

I'd like to get in on that.

boolala

Some people like to labor under the delusion that they're smarter than everyone else and can consistently get a 10% return on their money. These are the same people who would be lucky to break even in the market over the last 5 years.

Trader220

Show me 10% guaranteed and I'll find you all the capital you can manage. and only charge you .5%. I'll have 100 million by the end of next week ready to go.

Anyone seen Bernie?

boolala

I used to be totally against leasing unless you could claim it as a business deduction but I'm having second thoughts about it.

Eveytime I considered leasing (as opposed to paying cash) the leasing option always seemed much more expensive to me. However those were the days when interest rates were much higher and not necessarily subsidized by the manufacturer. Today interest rates are in the 0.9 - 2.9% range making leasing an attractive option again.

But beyond that consider the advantages of leasing. For one you are transferring the risk of "excess" depreciation to the lessor. By that I mean if the car is worth more at lease end you still have the option to buy it; however if the car is worth less than residual you can walk away. If you leased rather than buying over the last few years I suspect that you are ahead as the residuals were probably overinflated. In any case you can expect to pay a premium by virtue to the fact that you are transferring risk to someone else.

Secondly if the car is accidented you can expect a signifiicant deduction at trade-in time but if you lease it and it is fixed properly you suffer no financial consequences for this.

Third if you do a short term lease (36 months) you avoid ever having to pay for any major maintanence on the car (things like brakes etc). BMW, e.g., includes completely free maintanence for 4 years.

Fourth if you get a reasonable lease rate (3%) then it is certainly true that you can reasonably expect a similar return on your money in the short term but even if you don't the difference is small.

gabfab

Hi, new to the forum and to 911.

I was tempted to take the plunge by an ad special lease on a '09 C2 (no PASM). To make a long story short, although invited to test the C2, it wasn't prepped yet so the dealer offered me to test drive a C4S first. I loved the car and the ride. Then after several attempts the C2 was finally 'ready' (still had some tape/etc) but I found the ride to be too harsh with uneven city roads, potholes,etc. Dealer says it was properly and fully prepped and that the ride is very different among these two cars. The C4S is out of my reach for now and yes I will consider a used one. Before I consider giving up on a plain C2 at least with no PASM, I would welcome your input.

aggie57

Welcome...911-less or not!

There are quite a few people around who have had experience with both. Myself, I had an 08 C2 without PASM, and now have an 09 C2S with it which has now done around 800 miles.

My immediate reaction when swapping was that the PASM car is smoother riding but has less feel than the non-PASM car. It also strangely "floats" in normal on bumpy roads which the non-PASM car never did.

I know ultimately PASM is faster but my point is that that non-PASM car is incredibly well sorted and the naturally slightly stiffer ride was something I got used to very quickly. For many reasons I wouldn't got back but ride is not one of them.

Hope this helps - or in other words don't worry, just buy it!

Trader220

10k cash back is over

gabfab

Thank you for your input Aggie57 Tires may not have been at optimum set. I gave the C2 another spin and now I'll need to negotiate a fair deal...

Trader220: please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the cash back/trunk money has been probably already taken in by the dealers on many inventory cars so there must still be plenty of negotiation left. Not sure why you stated that 'can't have the cash back (or at least whatever % you can negotiate with the dealer) with the special pfs rates now available on the 'Porsche Moment'.

Trader220

Yes some dealers took extra cars from the port which allows them to hold that "marker" so to speak and apply that cash back to a car they have. THere are no more cars to take at port and no way to get fresh cash back and I doubt they're doing anything but what we are doing and that is applying that cash back to cars which we know will be tuff sales, like the ruby red launch cab. Rates were and still are available I never said anything about the rates changin, then again the rates dont apply on cash back cars.

mjsporsche

Long time...no speak! I hope you had a strong July.

I have not kept up with the programs and am trying to understand that the $10K is over (?) although a dealer can still apply their held "marker" to make a sale. Are you suggesting that the your dealer principal will only apply the marker to your Rudy Red launch car only. Not sure I understand that decision as any sale is a tougher sale these days and with the 2010s around the corner, every day makes a 2009 unit sale that much more difficult.

So Porsche NA accomplished their objective of clearing the port. That is a good thing. It seems to me that a dealer holding a $10K marker should realize that value...now by applying it to that customer who is on the fence on any vehicle they can sell. Who knows what the future might bring. No??

Regards,

Mark

Rob in WA

The deal w/the $10k back on a 911 was you had to take another car from port to get it. Since there are no more 997s at port, we can't apply it. There's still plenty of margin left to negotiate on though.

Trader220

We realize that the ruby red car is a harder sale then most and we're holding that "marker" to use on that car in particular none others.

porschestrabeturbo

Has anything changed or been reduced on lease rates/residuals/Money Factor, etc, for August? or is a manual turbo cab still 47% for 15k, +2% for 12, +3% for 10k? Thanks!!