peterm

wikipedia offers this

An automatic transmission (commonly "AT" or "Auto") is an automobile gearbox that can change gear ratios automatically as the vehicle moves, freeing the driver from having to shift gears manually. Similar but larger devices are also used for heavy-duty commercial and industrial vehicles and equipment.

there is no mention of absence of a clutch pedal to define an automatic transmisson- hence when in the manual mode this would exclude PDK as an automatic transmission. If you shift gears manually you no longer have an automatic- Perhaps OC you're hostile about missing the clutch pedal , years gone by you may have also been upset when they got rid of the crank to start the engine and went to electric starters

allegretto

wikipedia is a pseudo-reliable source of any info

the kernel here is this; does it shift "automatically"?

whether it's a torque converter or a gearbox seems irrelevant. while heretofore "automatic" was pretty much synonymous with the former, now we have numerous gearboxes that shift automatically.

it would seem that, as much as we appear to detest the designation, PDK is an automatically shifting transmission and therfore i don't see the problem with it being called "automatic"

many words become more or less inclusive as technology changes and this would seem to be one..

OCBen

So you're saying that the slush box tranny in my Nissan ceased to be an automatic transmission simply because I could shift gears manually with it? Oh boy, the force is strong with this one.

That's what happens when you depend on wiki to generate a definition for you.
Yeah, that's right, I'm hostile. Foaming at the mouth hostile. Stay away if know what's good for you.

Ahhhh, one thing there, clueless, where did you come to the conclusion that I'm "missing the clutch pedal"?

Yeah, I thought so.

OCBen

Finally.

Someone with intelligence speaks up.

It was gettin' lonely here.

ADias

Debate settled. PDK is an automatic. Vive PDK-automatique oh-la-la!

Rob in WA

I like this!!!

OCBen

The fact that PDK is an automatic transmission was never a matter of debate.

It is what it is.

Now whether or not you wish to call it what it is, is a matter of personal debate for each individual.

But at the end of the day it remains what it is. An automatic transmission.

Bob Rouleau

Road and Track, Car and Driver et al have coined the term "manumatic" to describe transmissions which are basically manual transmissions with a computer controlled clutch.

I think that it is worthwhile making a distinction between a transmission which does not have a clutch (or clutches as in the case of DSG, PDK and whatever BMW and now Ferrari call theirs) and a torque converter and various fluid operated hydraulics.

After living with PDK for a while and that includes track time, I suspect that the manual box will fade away. I still enjoy my 6 spd on my RS but PDK is so good that sales volume will persuade Porsche to make it standard on everything. Try and buy a manual transmission Mercedes here...Ferrari sales are 95 percent F1 paddles in spite of offering a 6 spd in the 430. Harbingers of the future I think.

Coochas

I think you're spot on Bob. My guess is that in 10 years it will be hard to get a manual tranny on a Porsche.

OCBen

Interesting.

I would call them directly-coupled, computer controlled, automatic transmissions. To distinguish them from the fluid-coupled, fluidic controlled, automatic transmissions, which are known for their power robbing, inefficient fluid coupling -- better known as your slush box.

Thundertub

Here is my opinion:
I have owned and raced sailboats from 1972 to 1993. I loved it until I finally got tired of it. I have owned 17 Porsches, all manual trans cars since my first one in 1972 as well. Since 1999 I have owned 6 powerboats 4 of which were and, currently are Donzi's. It is an entirely DIFFERENT experience. I have no intention of every buying a sailboat again. Not because I don't LIKE sailboating, but because I got TIRED of sailboating. I plan to keep my current Donzi since it is only 3 years old. I'm not tired of that experience, yet. I LOVE BOTH experiences. But, for now, I am sticking with powerboats for the future.
And my next Porsche will be PDK. And I HOPE they DO NOT change the current button format because I LOVE it and find it completely intuitive, on the road and at the track. It is a different experience than shift levers and clutches. I LIKE it. I find I am far more focused on the actual driving than worrying about an over rev upshift or shownshift. TAP, next gear, thankyou.
I agree with Bob that the FUTURE is for transmissions with no clutches, regardless of what you call it.
Again, just my personal opinion, and my personal experience with sailboats, power boats, 42 years of driving stick shift Porsches and 43 other cars which were sticks or not-sticks, and my new found love for the Porsche PDK.
If you have read this far, thank you.

OCBen

Pffft. That'll never happen. So long as Porsche continues to cater to sports car enthusiasts, it will continue to offer a manual transmission. You've got to offer what your customers demand.

The day it ceases to do so, is the day it ceases to be a sports car manufacturer, and the day it becomes solely a luxury car maker, in the eyes of enthusiasts.

OCBen

Yes I read that far. I liked your "Tap, next gear, thank you." comment.

Your sailboating experience, as well as Rob's and all the sailors in the world, confirms that just because the motorboat came along that didn't mean the end of an era for wind powered sail boats. Sure, some manufacturers undoubtedly abandoned making sailboats and focused exclusively on motorboats. But that didn't mean sailors stopped buying sailboats. They just bought 'em from manufacturers who continued to cater to sailboating enthusiasts, that's all.

The market drives demand. So long as there's a market for manual shifting sports cars, there's money out there to be made from this demand.

The day the internal combustion engine is outlawed and only electric motors are permitted in vehicles, is the day that the manual transmission will finally have its obituary written.

Rob in WA

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's about the journey, not the destination.

Bob Rouleau

Ben, you seem determined to define a sports car by the kind of transmission it has? Is a Dodge RAM a sports car because it has a manual tranny?

Is a modern F1 car the epitome of race cars? Is a Ferrari Challenge car a sports car, or the Scuderia or Stradale for that manner? You can't buy any of them of them with a manual box.

A Porsche is a sports car by virtue of its dynamics. A tiptronic Porsche sees the driving experience diminished because the driver has less control by virtue or slow acting hydraulics. PDK imposes no such limitations and in fact (like the Ferrari) provides faster shifts which shave tenths off lap times.

In our traffic congested world, PDK is a boon. When we get the opportunity to drive for pleasure - as opposed to simply getting to/from work, PDK in no way diminishes the experience. So what if you simply push a button instead of pressing a pedal and moving the stick?

Ben, have you driven a PDK? Better still, have you driven one on a track? I suspect you haven't.

Regards,