Chris from Cali

I don't live my life on the track. In real life, a perfect example of needing to shift during a turn is making a left turn and needing that 1-2 shift. In my wife's A3 (mit paddles), I have to keep track of which is which. In my C4S, I just push the button.

It's pretty funny that 99.9999% of the criticism comes from non-PDK owners. Hell, I criticized it before I owned it. It really is easy to get used to...

OCBen

Well, just because other manufacturers haven't been able to 'think outside the box', that doesn't necessarily make the boxed solution a better one. It just means more users are used to the box.

The QWERTY keyboard, as I alluded to, is not a better solution as it was devised to slow down the typist and keep the keys from jamming on early typewriters. The Dvorak keyboard layout was indeed a better solution because it was simpler and more efficient, thus allowing for faster typing and less fatigue for the typist. But the better solution in this case has not displaced the older, more established solution simply because there are more people used to the old, and, inertia being what it is, it's tough to teach an old dog a new trick as the majority of users are reluctant to change from what they're used to and comfortable with, even though the old is inferior to the new.

Paddle shifters require the use of both hands for shifting. The PDK buttons require the use of only one hand, and just the thumb and index finger of that hand, allowing the driver to keep his grip on the wheel.

Let's see, requiring both hands versus requiring only one hand - sounds to me like the one-handed solution is the simpler solution, and thus on that merit the better solution here.

JFA65

Owned my 09 C2S,PDK,Sport Chrono, Sport suspension since Oct. No problems and the buttons vrs paddles argument is a nonissue. Owned an 06, 1995, and 1976 manual. Much prefer the PDK

Le Chef

From recollection you only ever use one hand at a time when shifting with a proper paddle shifter set up - left for down or right for up - your argument is spurious - why then would I need duplicate sets of controls? That's redundancy which is bad design.

OCBen

That's true that you only use one hand at a time when shifting, but you need to use both of them. And for a new user he'll have to remember which hand to use to pull which lever up to upshift or downshift.

For a PDK new user all you have to remember is to push forward when you want to go forward faster by upshifting, and push backward when you want to go back down the gear train - with either hand! Seems easier to remember to me.

Redundancy is bad design??? Oh really? I don't know what design school you went to, but for machinery (electrical or mechanical), redundancy is always good design for the obvious reason that you eliminate single point failures, and that's always a good thing for reliability purposes.

Bob Rouleau

Chef - you are correct if we're talking a manual shift car. While in a corner, pressing the clutch causes an unwanted weight transfer to the front. With a 911 this is the same a lifting in the corner.

With PDK the shift is so fast the the power delivery is seamless and you can *upshift* in a corner without concern. The F1 guys do it all the time as do the Rolex gang with sequential shifters.

Whoever said that the criticism of PDK buttons is from those who don't own one, resonates with me. It took me a week to be comfortable with push to upshift and pull to down shift. After that it is a non issue.

OCBen

Oh, another advantage of having "redundant" shifter buttons on the steering wheel is that there may be some drivers who find it more comfortable to use their left hand for shifting, especially if they're sipping from the bottle while they drive - water bottle.

Bob Rouleau

Water bottle? hell no. Gin!

OCBen

Oh no you di'int!

Le Chef

I'm surprised it took that long to learn something that should be instantaneously obvious. That seems to be the advantage of the proper paddle shifters - it takes about 5 seconds to get it not a whole week.

Le Chef

With PDK you have to remember double the choices you would with a proper paddle shifter - hence the reason it takes a week to get comfortable rather than 5 seconds.

As to redundancy I'm talking interface not systems. With systems I want to reduce failure rates, with interface I want to reduce the risk of confusion and of taking the wrong action. Based on your thinking we would have two gear levers, two clutch pedals, two steering wheels and two gas pedals.

There are two separate issues, two separate needs, and two separate strategies to achieve them.

Bob Rouleau

Chef,

I had to unlearn the habits developed in my 430!
The odd time I was downshifting properly with the left button but downshifting again with the right hand one when I wanted to upshift

OCBen

Your logic is seriously flawed. Having two buttons instead of one is not the reason for the learning curve.


Well you didn't qualify your statement. I assumed you meant to say what you said when you made the universal statement that redundancy in design is bad.

But as far as interfaces go, redundancy can sometimes be a good thing to avoid confusion.

Le Chef

If it's not the reason then what is? Why would it appear that people "get" the simple left down/right up paddle shifter in a moment but take much longer to get the PDK interface? On that basis one is clearly better design than the other.

As to "hit any key" the answer is "any" key not more "escape" keys. On that basis your logic is also seriously flawed.

OCBen

You're making sweeping generalizations based on what "appears" to you to be the case and not on any evidentiary data. You'll need to perform a study or cite one to be able to back up your generalizations.

But based on the small sample size here where the guys are saying it didn't take them long at all to get used to it (one being a former paddle shifting F-car owner) the consensus is that it's a non-issue. Appearances be damned.

Come again?