Is there an aftermarket paddle shifter for the PDK push buttons?
05-04-2009, 03:18 PM
#46
Three Wheelin'
05-04-2009, 04:41 PM
#47
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...dk_system.html
And that's what he said:
Quote: "Locating the shift buttons on the steering wheel took some getting used to, though, and I would have preferred Ferrari-type paddles, mounted behind the steering wheel and actuated by pulling toward the driver. Instead, Porsche uses less intuitive rocker switches on the steering-wheel spokes. "We studied this very carefully, but we wanted to retain the Tiptronic button philosophy," Porsche stylist Mitja Borkert had told me."
Another one I read from Motortrend:
"Porsche didn't want to confuse Tiptronic owners"
I don't want to start an argument with you OCBen, but you can't say because it's from Porsche it is a better design. I just try to keep an open mind and read what other people have to say. And IF you read the press, you can't deny that the PDK interface is highly criticized.
Actually I don't mind the buttons if at least they were reversed (pull to upshift/ push to downshift) it just make more sense to me.
05-04-2009, 04:57 PM
#48
Banned
Thanks for the link.
But how could there be an argument based on what someone said? They either said it or they didn't. No argument necessary.
But you placed "at home" in quotation marks in your post, and all I asked for is where you read that they said that:
But how could there be an argument based on what someone said? They either said it or they didn't. No argument necessary.
But you placed "at home" in quotation marks in your post, and all I asked for is where you read that they said that:
05-04-2009, 05:20 PM
#49
Well, maybe it's not an exact quote but my understanding was Porsche wanted to keep the Tiptronic interface and didn't want to confuse Tiptronics owners.
I just quoted from memory (I guess I'm getting old huh?! LOL).
Sorry if I used "at home" wrongfully but IMHO it has the same meaning...
I just quoted from memory (I guess I'm getting old huh?! LOL).
Sorry if I used "at home" wrongfully but IMHO it has the same meaning...
05-04-2009, 05:36 PM
#51
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I think Porsche had an overstock of tiptronic wheels
05-04-2009, 08:48 PM
#52
I completely disagree.
Paddles were developed in racing and they tried every possible design before that. What came on top? Paddles.
It's clearly the better design and Porsche made a mistake with their stupid tiptronic buttons. Porsche said the reason for the buttons was for previous tiptronic owners to feel "at home". They said it! They never said it's because it's a better design than the paddles.
It's a sport car and I don't blame potential customers to turn their back on PDK cause of the lack of paddles.
Paddles were developed in racing and they tried every possible design before that. What came on top? Paddles.
It's clearly the better design and Porsche made a mistake with their stupid tiptronic buttons. Porsche said the reason for the buttons was for previous tiptronic owners to feel "at home". They said it! They never said it's because it's a better design than the paddles.
It's a sport car and I don't blame potential customers to turn their back on PDK cause of the lack of paddles.
Have you looked at the F1 racing paddles lately ?
They are more like parts of the grip molding, falling naturally at the finger and thumb of the driver... kind of like PDK when you hold the wheel at 9-3 like you are supposed to do on the track.
The F1 racing wheel "paddles" rotate with the wheel... again like PDK.
Also, i dont think pull up on one hand for UP and up on the other for DOWN is in anyway intuitive... Push and Pull is MUCH easier for me than LEFT and RIGHT
I only drove a PDK car for a short time, but it was not a problem.
I guess the biggest issue is its not like a Ferrari road car perhaps ??
05-04-2009, 10:26 PM
#53
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The thing with F1 cars though is that they never go hand over hand to make a turn so there's is no chance for confusion with an upside-down wheel.
Personally I like the Ferrari system of FIXED paddles behind the wheel. I will qualify that though because I have never driven a PDK car, only a 997 Turbo Cab with a Tip tranny. Can't say I really liked the buttons but I only drove it a little bit. I have a lot more experience behind the wheel of a Ferrari.
I'm being prepared to be proven wrong, but I believe the only companies with fixed paddles are Ferrari and Lamborghini. Even Veyron paddles rotate with the wheel. They are the exact same size and shape as the ones in an R8.
Personally I like the Ferrari system of FIXED paddles behind the wheel. I will qualify that though because I have never driven a PDK car, only a 997 Turbo Cab with a Tip tranny. Can't say I really liked the buttons but I only drove it a little bit. I have a lot more experience behind the wheel of a Ferrari.
I'm being prepared to be proven wrong, but I believe the only companies with fixed paddles are Ferrari and Lamborghini. Even Veyron paddles rotate with the wheel. They are the exact same size and shape as the ones in an R8.
05-04-2009, 10:37 PM
#54
Nordschleife Master
Paddle confusion can happen on steering-wheel-attached paddles that are left pull for downshift and right pull for upshift - not on the PDK system.
05-05-2009, 01:17 PM
#56
The thing with F1 cars though is that they never go hand over hand to make a turn so there's is no chance for confusion with an upside-down wheel.
Personally I like the Ferrari system of FIXED paddles behind the wheel. I will qualify that though because I have never driven a PDK car, only a 997 Turbo Cab with a Tip tranny. Can't say I really liked the buttons but I only drove it a little bit. I have a lot more experience behind the wheel of a Ferrari.
I'm being prepared to be proven wrong, but I believe the only companies with fixed paddles are Ferrari and Lamborghini. Even Veyron paddles rotate with the wheel. They are the exact same size and shape as the ones in an R8.
Personally I like the Ferrari system of FIXED paddles behind the wheel. I will qualify that though because I have never driven a PDK car, only a 997 Turbo Cab with a Tip tranny. Can't say I really liked the buttons but I only drove it a little bit. I have a lot more experience behind the wheel of a Ferrari.
I'm being prepared to be proven wrong, but I believe the only companies with fixed paddles are Ferrari and Lamborghini. Even Veyron paddles rotate with the wheel. They are the exact same size and shape as the ones in an R8.
The PDK buttons are nothing like the Tip ones, although they look like it in the pictures.
They are more like a small section of the steering wheel that slides in and out... You should try driving one.
11-09-2009, 12:30 AM
#58
Pro
01-30-2013, 11:50 AM
#60
It is often the case that whatever is superior intuitively or technically may not ultimately get adopted by the masses, simply because it is either late to the party and/or is outnumbered by cheaper, inferior competition which the masses have gotten accustomed to and are unwilling to change, or there are more users of the inferior technology thus driving the market and forcing competitors to follow suit. E.g., Dvorak vs QWERTY; Betamax vs VHS; Blu-ray vs HD DVD (although in this case the superior technology won out in spite of it being more expensive than the competing technology).
There are more drivers used to paddles and more manufacturers making paddles that PAG will ultimately be forced to fall in line with the rest of the manufacturers and offer paddles, simply because the masses are used to them and will thus demand them if they opt for PDK, regardless of any superiority the buttons may have over the paddles.
That's simply the essence of market driven demand. If PAG had been first to the party with the push buttons, they would have established the standard that everyone would have been forced to follow or improve upon.
But clearly paddles have become the de facto standard, and PAG will need to conform to this standard if they want to stay in the game with their PDK, even though they may be the only ones with the ignition switch on the opposite side - something that anyone can get used to as it only comes into play twice very briefly during a driving experience - at the start and at the end.
There are more drivers used to paddles and more manufacturers making paddles that PAG will ultimately be forced to fall in line with the rest of the manufacturers and offer paddles, simply because the masses are used to them and will thus demand them if they opt for PDK, regardless of any superiority the buttons may have over the paddles.
That's simply the essence of market driven demand. If PAG had been first to the party with the push buttons, they would have established the standard that everyone would have been forced to follow or improve upon.
But clearly paddles have become the de facto standard, and PAG will need to conform to this standard if they want to stay in the game with their PDK, even though they may be the only ones with the ignition switch on the opposite side - something that anyone can get used to as it only comes into play twice very briefly during a driving experience - at the start and at the end.
I wish I could disagree more with you, but I can't: Your statements directly imply that paddles are inferior to PAG’s buttons, and that paddles are simply accepted because they are cheaper and mass produced. Maybe I’m reading too much into your conclusions, but I simply could not disagree more with your statements.
An abridged history into paddles: John Barnard and Scuderia Ferrari developed these back in the mid-80’s for their F-1 car. While much iteration was developed, the drivers found the paddles to be the most intuitive, naturally ergonomic, and less prone to human error. Once introduced to the road cars, the paddles were adopted as de facto.
So, in fact, paddles were track born and tested, and not a child of low-cost, mass production. PAG, sorry to say, did in fact f*ck up by not wanting to be seen as copying the Italians. God forbid if that should happen. And, in my opinion (it’s only my opinion), the buttons are so cheap, so ugly, and so counter intuitive that PAG is forced to offer paddles as optional equipment. Brilliant!
I agree with Le Chef.