Anyone regret buying a base carrera?..
01-15-2008, 07:50 PM
#136
Racer
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Getting somewhat back to the call of the question, I've had my base, lightly optioned C2 (xenons, sport steering wheel, Bose, sport chrono) - since 5/06 and am extremely happy with it. Keeping the car light really pays off in the handling department. The car is still wicked fast from my point of view, and my skills definitely haven't caught up to the car's abilities yet. I don't regret not getting the "S" at all. I like the slightly lighter weight, for now, and since I'm not trying to drag race 'Vettes or anything, the few extra ponies aren't missed. Since this is my first 911, I figured I should start out with the purest expression of the model and move on from there. Also leaves me with something to look forward to. A year-and-a-half later, it turns out that something appears to be a C4S, although not until '09, most likely. Love the look of the wider hips, think I'll feel a bit more confident with the awd, and would want the "S" power at that point to offset the extra weight. I am now absolutely salivating over a white C4S and must have configured it on the Porsche website about a hundred times already.
01-16-2008, 09:45 AM
#137
Track Day
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C4S is an awesome car - the Turbo w/out the Turbo! Do some resale research on white ones to be sure. The knock is they have less resale value relative to other/darker colors. I don't have any specifics on that, but 2 area dealers have told me this. If you plan to keep the car for several years it shouldn't be a problem.
05-16-2008, 12:25 PM
#139
When it's said that the engine on the C2 is "sweeter" then the S, what exactly does this mean? I'm wondering how an engine with less TQ and less HP can be more desirable when all other things remain equal?
Also what exactly does "ride better" mean when it comes to the C2 vs. the S? Ride better how? I'm thinking no one is referring to softer or more comfortable right? I mean this is supposed to be a sports car so I want the car to be tight. As far as the the wider tires on the S and tramlining, that's an issue for all cars however the wider tires do have benefits if a car can take advantage of those.
I was convinced I wanted an S model for PASM, 19's, brakes, Xenons, and the engine but now I'm not so sure. If the C2 is really better and I can save 10K, then I'm all for that.
What about the gearbox, gear ratios, rear diff, clutch and flywheel? What are the differences there?
Also what exactly does "ride better" mean when it comes to the C2 vs. the S? Ride better how? I'm thinking no one is referring to softer or more comfortable right? I mean this is supposed to be a sports car so I want the car to be tight. As far as the the wider tires on the S and tramlining, that's an issue for all cars however the wider tires do have benefits if a car can take advantage of those.
I was convinced I wanted an S model for PASM, 19's, brakes, Xenons, and the engine but now I'm not so sure. If the C2 is really better and I can save 10K, then I'm all for that.
What about the gearbox, gear ratios, rear diff, clutch and flywheel? What are the differences there?
05-16-2008, 01:30 PM
#140
Three Wheelin'
I would say test both and figure out which is for you. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer on this because everyone has a different need, want, goal, objective for their car. For me the C2S is perfect. Would I be as happy in a base C2? Probably not now after getting accustomed to all the things on this car. If I were to order a base C2 I would probably option it within spitting distance of the S version so to me it is a pretty simple equation. For others it is simple to get a base, non optioned 997.
05-16-2008, 01:33 PM
#141
Three Wheelin'
I borrowed a base Carrera last week and was amazed at how different it was to the my S. Engine revs more freely, and while it doesn't have the torque it doesn't feel slow.
It rides better in that transverse ridges and frost heaves are felt less than with 19" wheels, but doesn't feel soft or floaty.
I actually preferred the driving experience on 18" wheels too. You get a much better sense of what the tires are doing when you lean on it going into a corner. You also feel less like you;re on rails, which I personally prefer, but the downside is slightly less "bite" on turn in and slightly less stability (more squirm) at the rear through the middle of the corner.
I had always thought buying the S was a no-brainer and that I would do it again, but now I'm not so sure...
It rides better in that transverse ridges and frost heaves are felt less than with 19" wheels, but doesn't feel soft or floaty.
I actually preferred the driving experience on 18" wheels too. You get a much better sense of what the tires are doing when you lean on it going into a corner. You also feel less like you;re on rails, which I personally prefer, but the downside is slightly less "bite" on turn in and slightly less stability (more squirm) at the rear through the middle of the corner.
I had always thought buying the S was a no-brainer and that I would do it again, but now I'm not so sure...
05-16-2008, 03:30 PM
#142
uninformed gas bag
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
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(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
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If your even asking yourself the question you should get the "S". I was looking at CPO'd S's and came across the car I bought. Although not an "S" it is nicely optioned and I felt it was a lot of car for the money. Yes, if I was going to seriously DE in the car I would not have bought the C2 but thats what I have the track car for and "nut'n for nut'n chief" the C2 can get you into trouble fast enough for me.
08-26-2008, 06:28 PM
#143
Why is it that the people who didn't spend the money always have to rationalize and justify their decision. As stated earlier, who here had to defend that they got the S.
Everyone, listen up, Porsche has a little secret: the S is just a waste of $10,300 and the Non-S is really a better car. I wish Porsche would have told me this before I "wasted" $10,300. I would never buy any car without getting the option for the largest engine. I guess that's because to me that is the most important part.
Everyone, listen up, Porsche has a little secret: the S is just a waste of $10,300 and the Non-S is really a better car. I wish Porsche would have told me this before I "wasted" $10,300. I would never buy any car without getting the option for the largest engine. I guess that's because to me that is the most important part.
I didn't post here to defend myself, but rather to educate my fellow rennlisters in hopes they wouldn't waste the $10,300 difference and end up with a lesser experience (of course with the caveat I've mentioned here before - if a couple of tenths matter more than the feel get the S).
Every expert (and no I don't mean myself or anyone else here) who has discussed it prefers the base car. The writers in Excellence magazine, the Japanese hot shoe on Best Motoring (thank you Coochas), Walter Rorhl, Hurley Haywood are the few I can think of off the top of my head.
The engine is sweeter, the suspension better, the driving experience is superior and you get to keep your $10,300.
Every expert (and no I don't mean myself or anyone else here) who has discussed it prefers the base car. The writers in Excellence magazine, the Japanese hot shoe on Best Motoring (thank you Coochas), Walter Rorhl, Hurley Haywood are the few I can think of off the top of my head.
The engine is sweeter, the suspension better, the driving experience is superior and you get to keep your $10,300.
08-26-2008, 09:18 PM
#144
Racer
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Why is it that the people who didn't spend the money always have to rationalize and justify their decision. As stated earlier, who here had to defend that they got the S.
Everyone, listen up, Porsche has a little secret: the S is just a waste of $10,300 and the Non-S is really a better car. I wish Porsche would have told me this before I "wasted" $10,300. I would never buy any car without getting the option for the largest engine. I guess that's because to me that is the most important part.
Everyone, listen up, Porsche has a little secret: the S is just a waste of $10,300 and the Non-S is really a better car. I wish Porsche would have told me this before I "wasted" $10,300. I would never buy any car without getting the option for the largest engine. I guess that's because to me that is the most important part.
As to your 1st point - I always need to rationalize (to myself) why I did spend extra money, not the reverse.
Your 2nd point - I thought I already effectively announced that the base car was the better one.
Your 3rd point - The engine is not the most important part of a 911 imho - its the handling, steering feel etc. If the engine was the most important factor you could have gotten a base corvette and saved tens of thousands of $$$, or a Z06 and saved ten thousand or so.
And with gas prices as they are, I doubt most would agree with you (at least as it pertains to the typical car). Dealers can't sell cars with V8s while mini cooper sales have increased 30%.
I can't figure out why another person's opinions get people so worked up. We're just talking here!
08-26-2008, 09:21 PM
#145
Not in MA anymore
Rennlist Member
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NON- Porsche; but I'm having the same issue deciding between a Ducati 1098 or 1098"S". Ironic. lol
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My 'ol SS is still a smokin' bike... and you don't see many on the road any more
Matt
08-26-2008, 09:30 PM
#146
Actually the engine is the most important part. I don't think the engine in a Z06 is better than a Porsche EVEN THOUGH it is faster. The engine is the starting point, and I think Porsche has one of the best ones out there.
Your 3rd point - The engine is not the most important part of a 911 imho - its the handling, steering feel etc. If the engine was the most important factor you could have gotten a base corvette and saved tens of thousands of $$$, or a Z06 and saved ten thousand or so.
Did you just bring up the issue of gas prices on a Porsche forum? Don't try to speculate who would and wouldn't agree with me. Furthermore, if you don't want to have people get "worked up" over your opinions, maybe your method of communicating opinions is off. Just a thought.
And with gas prices as they are, I doubt most would agree with you (at least as it pertains to the typical car). Dealers can't sell cars with V8s while mini cooper sales have increased 30%.
]
Your 3rd point - The engine is not the most important part of a 911 imho - its the handling, steering feel etc. If the engine was the most important factor you could have gotten a base corvette and saved tens of thousands of $$$, or a Z06 and saved ten thousand or so.
Did you just bring up the issue of gas prices on a Porsche forum? Don't try to speculate who would and wouldn't agree with me. Furthermore, if you don't want to have people get "worked up" over your opinions, maybe your method of communicating opinions is off. Just a thought.
And with gas prices as they are, I doubt most would agree with you (at least as it pertains to the typical car). Dealers can't sell cars with V8s while mini cooper sales have increased 30%.
]
08-26-2008, 10:22 PM
#147
This is amusing. Gas prices!?! 
The base is *better*?
The engine is sweeter?
I could see someone trying that argument with perhaps the base 997.2 vs. 997 C2S - but not 997 vs. 997 C2S.
I hate the jacked up 4x4 look of the base C2 - it looks horrible. Now if the base car came with the ROW -20 ride height and LSD that would be another matter.
The base is *better*?
The engine is sweeter?
I could see someone trying that argument with perhaps the base 997.2 vs. 997 C2S - but not 997 vs. 997 C2S.
I hate the jacked up 4x4 look of the base C2 - it looks horrible. Now if the base car came with the ROW -20 ride height and LSD that would be another matter.
08-26-2008, 10:36 PM
#149
Racer
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Actually the engine is the most important part. I don't think the engine in a Z06 is better than a Porsche EVEN THOUGH it is faster. The engine is the starting point, and I think Porsche has one of the best ones out there.
Your 3rd point - The engine is not the most important part of a 911 imho - its the handling, steering feel etc. If the engine was the most important factor you could have gotten a base corvette and saved tens of thousands of $$$, or a Z06 and saved ten thousand or so.
Did you just bring up the issue of gas prices on a Porsche forum? Don't try to speculate who would and wouldn't agree with me. Furthermore, if you don't want to have people get "worked up" over your opinions, maybe your method of communicating opinions is off. Just a thought.
And with gas prices as they are, I doubt most would agree with you (at least as it pertains to the typical car). Dealers can't sell cars with V8s while mini cooper sales have increased 30%.
]
Your 3rd point - The engine is not the most important part of a 911 imho - its the handling, steering feel etc. If the engine was the most important factor you could have gotten a base corvette and saved tens of thousands of $$$, or a Z06 and saved ten thousand or so.
Did you just bring up the issue of gas prices on a Porsche forum? Don't try to speculate who would and wouldn't agree with me. Furthermore, if you don't want to have people get "worked up" over your opinions, maybe your method of communicating opinions is off. Just a thought.
And with gas prices as they are, I doubt most would agree with you (at least as it pertains to the typical car). Dealers can't sell cars with V8s while mini cooper sales have increased 30%.
]
Regarding your comment not to speculate, are you really going to try and censor someone on an internet forum designed to share opinions and ideas?
Regarding your comment on engines, you started by saying you'd always get the bigger engine, I assume you meant more powerful. If you did mean that then the Z06 engine would be substantially better, no? If you didn't mean that then I stand by the comment that the 3.6 is a nicer engine in many ways to the 3.8 with the exception of max hp and torque.
Finally, what's wrong with my method of communication? I didn't use fowl language, didn't insult anyone or call names? When I expressed my thoughts
I tried to cite useful resources. I realize my opinion is that of a non-expert, but the sources I cite should carry some weight I would think.
08-26-2008, 10:40 PM
#150
Racer
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This is amusing. Gas prices!?!
The base is *better*?
The engine is sweeter?
I could see someone trying that argument with perhaps the base 997.2 vs. 997 C2S - but not 997 vs. 997 C2S.
I hate the jacked up 4x4 look of the base C2 - it looks horrible. Now if the base car came with the ROW -20 ride height and LSD that would be another matter.
The base is *better*?
The engine is sweeter?
I could see someone trying that argument with perhaps the base 997.2 vs. 997 C2S - but not 997 vs. 997 C2S.
I hate the jacked up 4x4 look of the base C2 - it looks horrible. Now if the base car came with the ROW -20 ride height and LSD that would be another matter.
I do agree though that the car looks better with 19s, but for me the better ride quality and slightly better clearance were more important.