arthrellem

I need a 911 again.

What do people think about the 997 C2 versus C4 for winter driving when both have real winter tires? How did any C2 drivers with snows fair through the winter of 06-07?

I am wondering how much of difference I'll really see in winter handling on snowy roads. It seems to me that PSM and other features have come so far that the winter time difference between the C2 and C4 will be minimal.

I end up having 1-3 weekends a year on interstate 87 through upstate New York to take my son to ski race at Whiteface. I figure with the Roof Transport System and good tires, we'll both have more fun in the 911.

I have owned a 964 C4 and Boxster which I drove through the snow every year. I will trade my nearly pristine 04 Cayenne S with 90K miles to get the 997. (My wife---heaven help me---wants to keep her Toyota Highlander Hybrid, or we would already be a 2 Porsche family.)

Edgy01

Part of that depends on where you live. If you're at the top of a very steep hill then the C4 may be better. If not that steep then a good set of snow tires will get you anywhere you need to go with the C2. I spent 6 winters in New England and mostly other cars in that mess. More so because of the OTHER drivers. When you get to Crazy Corners in Chelmsford and are driving a nice car you'll never get through in the winter!

frafoss

Since I'm from Norway I have quite a bit experience with winter driving :-)

From my experience a four wheel drive is quite superior under slippery conditon. But one thing people forget that when you have this confident felling driving a four wheel drive, is if something happen. A four wheel drive has the same stopping distance as a two wheel. My C2 isn't so bad on winter, on snow very good actually. The worst conditon with a C2 is ice with water on top. Me to have the RTS because of skiing and i works very well.

So it all depends on your liking. Do you want a car which feel very confident or a car which gives more feedback. What ever choice, I would recommend to go for bit narrower tyres to get more grip.

Also have in mind that the rear drive is a more sastisfactory drive when you can use summer tyres.

Nine9Sixer

if you have no aversion to the C4 in dry conditions (added weight, less/no oversteer), and you intend to trek up into the mountains during winter, i'd rather be safe than sorry and get the C4.

after years of driving rear-wheel cars with snows or all seasons, i (and my bmw) finally met my match last year with a wicked snow storm in CT where i got stuck on several hills. in some places, i travelled more distance sideways than straight ahead. after thinking of myself as a rwd purist, that's when i first considered getting awd.

chsu74

I had a buddy who lived in Lake Placid and visited him quite often. The trek after getting off 87 to get to Whiteface will require AWD in the winter.

mb1

I was in a similar situation last year with my decision. I live in Chicago and use my car as a daily driver. I had a 996 C2 (which I used with snow tires in the winter) and was ordering a 997. I ended up purchasing a C4. While the C2 with snows is adequate in almost all conditions, I knew that I'd regret not having purchased a C4 during those inevitable 2-3 days of hellacious driving that occur during most Chicago winters. That said, even the C4 is obviously not ideal when things get real treacherous. I don't regret the decision. Warning: you'll find that most purists on this board find a 4WD 911 to be heresy.

P-Nuts

I went for the C2S over the C4S. I have 19" snows and have been very happy with winter performance and grip over the past 2 winters. I live in CT and we only have a handful of really bad snow days a year. Both cars a great in the snow...as long as u get the right tires...and the fresh snow is not more than 5" or so.

Alstoy

frafoss-need your help in translating what "daven min gul clump?" means.

rfedele

C2 with 18 inch winters just fine.

Le Chef

I owned a C4S and traded it for a C2S. And look where I live. Enough said

mal28

I had a c4s i996 n northern Ohio, much snow The car with snow tires was awesome in the snow except for the ground clearance. At time, I felt like I was driving a plow. the front spoiler would push any snow over a few inches high.

I was also concerned about the idiot in the 5000 pound SUV along side me.

My current car is a 997 c2s, I plan on using the Saab in the snow this year

chsu74

If you have not driven through the Adirondack mountains during winter time, I don't think you can relate. Get AWD.

arthrellem

Thanks all for the great input. I'm seeing a lot of my own experience reflected in yours. You're helping me see that there are several (rather than one) rate limiting factors:

General snowy conditions: C2 or C4 with good tires just fine

Stopping distance: again, C2/ C4 no real difference

Ground clearance (read: $90K snow plow using front air dam): C2/ C4 no difference

Going up the steep hills: advantage C4

Adirondack winters, mountain driving: C4

Recovery from slide, loss of traction: maybe slight advantage C4 (my understanding is that all the PSM and ABD recovery is about breaking wheels rather than adding power to them, thus once the car has broken free they are about equally capable of recovering to straight-line travel.)

I do worry that a manual S might be a bit more challenging, putting a higher premium on smooth driving versus a C4 tip. What's most difficult to know, however, is whether the margin of added "winter performance" I'll get in the C4 is useable. In other words, is there a "window" in which the C2 with good tires won't get me there and the C4 will? And, how much worse might the conditions need to get before the C4 won't do it just due to ground clearance?

(I think it is time for me to stop obsessing on this and start car shopping.)

frafoss

Are you sure this is norwegian? Has sombody said these word to you?

frafoss

Your conclusion is mostly spot on. What I would like to correct you on, is that a manual car is more challenging than at tiptronic. Rather the opposite if you ask me. With automatic/tiptronic you are much more a passanger when sudden situation happen. With a manual you havt the clutch which can be really helpfull and you feel much more in control. I had earlier a Audi A8, which is a much better car in winter than the Porsche, but when you lost control it was quite scary because lack of control.

This is the experience from a guy which has 4-5 months with snow and ice every year. Look on your map and you understand why If you are used to winter conditions, and drive with the inside of your head you shouldn't have much trouble with either choice.

What ever you choose you make its great!!!