Alstoy

frafoss-the person that said it was Norwegian. My spelling may be way off though. Any guesses.

Nine9Sixer

perhaps another way of looking at the issue: do the advantages of a C4 in winter (hills and mtn driving, as you keenly summarized) outweigh the (supposed) tradeoffs in summer driving (added weight, less oversteer). this has admitted rwd bias all over it, but i suppose you wouldn't mind since you're asking the question. i've never driven a C4, so i have no real experience concerning these supposed tradeoff in real-life driving. but given your particular needs, i'd say go for the C4. plus, i think it's really cool seeing 911's when there's snow out. imho.

DMR

I have a 2006 C2 and it is my one and only car in Boston. Last winter I took it to Vermont to go skiing (rooftransport system included) and I was very happy with the results. I have ContiWinterContact TS810 S 18's (i.e. the Porsche NO model) and generally had very little problems with traction. I think that as far as rear wheel drive cars go, the 997 C2 behaves very well as long as you drive carefully depending on the road conditions. I have a manual which I think is far better in winter/slippery conditions because as was mentioned earlier, you have greater control especially when descending on slippery roads. In the spring, summer, and fall I enjoy the fact that my 911 is rear wheel drive.

Dave

frafoss

"daven min gul clump?" It means something like this. ****, my yellow bunny...

Where have you been called that?

dstrimbu

Isn't that the truth? I still think that I made the correct decision with my C4S. Sounds like you feel the same, mb1.

As a 911 novice, I find the AWD system's propensity to prevent oversteer a benefit - at least for now...

-don

arthrellem

Don

I loved my 1989 C4. I loved the way it grabbed with front tires and pulled hard through a 90 degree turn as if the front tires had sprouted claws. I miss that car a lot! Mostly the reason I have been thinking about a new 911.

Do you garage yours in the winter or drive it though the Chi-town weather?

Baggerdude

I think the posts are pretty much correct. Except for the attempt at Norwegian speak by Alstoy ... BTAIM.

Here's my recommendation. If you can afford a new, or preowned C4 or C2 .... and live in a region where it snows, or you go up mountain to ski, or some such .... keep the Porsche in the garage in snowy conditions. The new ice melt used by many states will rot the crap outa your car. My new Ford F150 had rust on the chrome in less than 2 months last winter. And, I run the truck thru the car wash weekly. I don't think this new (CaCl2??) is good for our vehicles.

Now, IF you can afford a car of $65-120K (or some such) and want to keep it in new condition ... buy a Subaru of some ilk to run in the winter and crap weather. Hey, a Subie station wagon will come in handy more often than you think. Rear seat, fold down rear seats to make runs to Home Depot, the Transfer station, hauling the kids to here and there. You know what I mean.

Plus, the price of a good ..... GOOD .... set of winter wheels and tires, changin' them out a couple times a year, jack/lug wrench, etc., storing the tires with covers, yada, yada ... will not be cheap. You can buy a used Subie for about the same price and get more money returned when you list the car as "never driven in winter". Just my opinion.

When I had less money, I drove my used & new 911s year 'round. I had some with winter tires, and some without. I always found it exciting to drive on snowy roads. I think you can figure out what I'm trying to say. And, I've driven 911s since the late 60s.

Altho, the newer C4 cars are AWD, they are not in the league of Subarus or other AWD/4WD vehicles. They are sports cars primarily .... and, I guess one could use them in winter. Here's a story. We had an AWD Passat. Very nice car. Essentially an 4 series Audi car. It went everywhere in the snow with all season sneakers on it. But, when the snow was over 5" .... it became a very bad snow plow. Wet snow was worse. No front air dam clearance, or frame clearance. Not good.

I'd buy a 'back up' AWD/4WD 4 year old Subie and a battery tender for the 911.

I'm sure others will differ.

dstrimbu

Isn't that amazing, arthrellem? The viscous AWD system allows just enough wheelspin to get slightly sideways before "the grab" maneuver happens. And you're absolutely right, it feels like the front end has sprouted claws. Just amazing to me. I'm wondering if the next generation C4 cars will feel the same way, as they'll probably adopt the new electronic interaxle diff that's in the 997 Turbo.

Last fall I bought a set of (beautifully clean!) 19" "Lobster Fork" takeoffs from WheelEnhancement, and a set of Pirelli 240 SnowSports. My intent was not to drive it in bad weather, but to be able to enjoy it on the 80% of Chicago winter days when it's dry and cold...

Of course, my plans hit the fan when my old BMW gave up the ghost (in main parking at O'Hare, of all places... $26 a day) in a long January round of subzero temps. So, of course, I drove the 911 for two weeks, back and forth to work.

Quite honestly, it was the best winter car I've ever driven - but I didn't have to deal with deep snow (in which case the front splitter would have taken a beating, or worse...). Like many Rennlisters, I had a lot of anxiety worrying about people sliding into me in bad conditions... so I don't think I'll make a habit out of it. It was a gas to watch people's expressions when they saw the C4S launch on snowy surfaces - something between disbelief and amazement. And it felt really good to simply motor around clueless SUV drivers with summer tires mounted... "But honey, it's 4 wheel drive!"

On the other hand, when its cold and the roads are clear, I see absolutely no reason _not_ to drive the 911, especially when it's equipped with the proper tires. The Pirellis are pretty sticky even in low temps when the PS2s get funky - but that's what they were designed for... a bit noiser, too, but not objectionable in any way.

So, if it was just me on the road - sure, no reason not to drive 'er 365 days a year. But since it's not really that way, I'll exercise caution regarding winter excursions...

-don

Moderato

I have an 06 M3 ZCP and an 06 STI. From what I've experienced from these cars and all of the one I've owned before them you have two conisderations: 1) is ground clearance and 2) is longevity. You need ground clearance for winter driving. AWD will help you if GROUND CLEARANCE ISN'T AN ISSUE, otherwise you're not going to be much better off with AWD or RWD. Longevity is an issue because winter driving will put wear and tear on the the exterior of your car no matter how careful you are, (as will the heat of summer if you park your car outdoors all the time, for that matter).

I wouldn't consider AWD or RWD for a 911 based on winter driving, I would strictly consider it for driving dynamics.

Otherwise buy a winter beater.

If you must have only one car, and it must be a 911, and you must drive it in the winter no matter what, then get the AWD.

mdrobc1213

Winter driving? That's what the battery tender and the BMW SUV are for! LOL Seriously though I may get a set of winter tires for my 18" OEM Carrera Classic wheels. Any suggestions out there? I'd be interested in what folks use and suggest too.

arthrellem

Uncle!

I'll keep the Cayenne S and build a third bay on the garage for the 911.

Then, only my wife will be unhappy. (her SUV, my Cayenne, and a 911)

Thanks all

Baggerdude

Sounds like an excellent plan !

Alstoy

I agree with Bagger about everything except my attempts at becoming a UN Goodwill Ambassador.

Frafoss- thanks for the translation. You should be able to extrapolate when such a remark would be made.

Moogle

For the price of a C4 you can get a C2s, which I think you will be much happier with. Realistically the 4WD system is not really for driving in the snow, although it is good in the rain. The C2S is already amazing in the rain.

I would recommend going with the C2S, the additional power is worth it over the C4's 4WD

printemps2001

Not being Michael Schumacher, the much talked about tradeoff in the dry between the C2 and C4 seemed like a non-issue to me (especially having had only quattro vehicles for the part 10 years). That being said, I imagine there is great traction with a C2, but all wheel drive is so nice when you are starting from a dead stop, or climbing a hill. At the end of the day, much like my S4 (and I assume more so), ground clearance is the limiting factor and more than a couple inches of snow is a non-starter anyway. I played it safe and got a C4 (plus I love looking at her big hips)... when it comes time to trade it in, maybe my opinion will change.