Hurley Haywood on the tip
10-21-2006, 02:30 AM
#1
Hurley Haywood on the tip
There is so much B.S. written on this forum about the tip that I thought I would provide some balance by quoting HH in this month's Christophorus magazine:
"...99.99 percent of the driving public is better served with an automatic transmission--it's just easier...as long, of course, as the automatic is up to the standard of the Porsche transmission....Porsche has developed the tiptronic over the years to become very smart....Anyone other than a professional race driver willl be able to get around the track faster with the automatic than with the manual shifter....Six speed gear shifting requires you to be very proficient.....and most people don't have a clue..."
It has always been my contention that people who have but don't like the tip do so because they just don't know how to drive it properly. It has to be driven agressively and it will reward you with outstanding performance. It makes lightening fast shifts. It is wonderfully adaptable when driven aggressively. You can downshift simply by feathering the throttle (prior to lane changes e.g).
If you're getting 20+ mpg with the tip then that is your problem. You're not driving aggressively enough. You're spending too much time in the higher gears.
"...99.99 percent of the driving public is better served with an automatic transmission--it's just easier...as long, of course, as the automatic is up to the standard of the Porsche transmission....Porsche has developed the tiptronic over the years to become very smart....Anyone other than a professional race driver willl be able to get around the track faster with the automatic than with the manual shifter....Six speed gear shifting requires you to be very proficient.....and most people don't have a clue..."
It has always been my contention that people who have but don't like the tip do so because they just don't know how to drive it properly. It has to be driven agressively and it will reward you with outstanding performance. It makes lightening fast shifts. It is wonderfully adaptable when driven aggressively. You can downshift simply by feathering the throttle (prior to lane changes e.g).
If you're getting 20+ mpg with the tip then that is your problem. You're not driving aggressively enough. You're spending too much time in the higher gears.
Last edited by boolala; 10-21-2006 at 07:03 PM.
10-21-2006, 02:41 AM
#2
Drifting
Boolala..
You can quote Jesus for all I care. Tips are for the "wifey"..
Maybe you should try owning a manual transmission in a 911 before you tell us all that we are archaic. Or for that matter we are wrong for wanting a clutch.
And your continued desire to have us believe that manual transmissions are going away is just laughable.. Yes, tips perform better, yes, girls can drive them.. And yes, a G-Shock watch tells better time than my Royal Oak Offshore.. Guess what.. I ain't trading my H box for a slush box and I ain't trading my AP for a Casio...
Nuff said.
B
You can quote Jesus for all I care. Tips are for the "wifey"..
Maybe you should try owning a manual transmission in a 911 before you tell us all that we are archaic. Or for that matter we are wrong for wanting a clutch.
And your continued desire to have us believe that manual transmissions are going away is just laughable.. Yes, tips perform better, yes, girls can drive them.. And yes, a G-Shock watch tells better time than my Royal Oak Offshore.. Guess what.. I ain't trading my H box for a slush box and I ain't trading my AP for a Casio...
Nuff said.
B
10-21-2006, 02:43 AM
#3
Drifting
And I also suggest you try a track day and actually get your Pcar off the boulevard before you quote HH. Maybe once you learn to hit an Apex your opinion might hold some water.
B
B
10-21-2006, 03:29 AM
#4
Three Wheelin'
you gotta remember boo!
hurley is on porsches payroll
hurley is on porsches payroll
10-21-2006, 08:10 AM
#6
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Dont think you will ever convert those who prefer manual gearboxes.Having owned a manual and a tiptronic I would always choose tiptronic.Having owned smg and tiptronic I would always choose tiptronic.Just wish it had paddles instead of the buttons on the steering wheel.The article in Christophorus is slightly exagerrated but the performance manual v tip overall is closer than people think.
10-21-2006, 10:10 AM
#7
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I was amazed at the performance of the TIP in the hands of a capable driver on Hot Laps at PDE.
No Heel Toe required.
At the end the discusson was about "the difference if Sport button pressed".
Floor it!!
Take the ride CLICK HERE
BTW I'am still old school and have never owned a car with an automatic....
No Heel Toe required.
At the end the discusson was about "the difference if Sport button pressed".
Floor it!!
Take the ride CLICK HERE
BTW I'am still old school and have never owned a car with an automatic....
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10-21-2006, 11:51 AM
#8
Drifting
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I don't care I'm still getting a 6 speed! Heel toe downshifting and rev matching is an aquired skill that is also a sh*tload of fun on and off the track. No pod...errr I mean tiptronic for me!
10-21-2006, 11:57 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
I think the whole "real men drive only manual transmissions" argument is out-of-date.
While it's certainly understandable that most prefer the manual over the tip, it's "Cave Man" logic to categorize those who opt for the tiptronic as being less masculine.
Professional drivers know the tip has come into its own in recent years as a viable alternative.
We're lucky enough to have one of each...and for me each transmission has its pros and cons.
While it's certainly understandable that most prefer the manual over the tip, it's "Cave Man" logic to categorize those who opt for the tiptronic as being less masculine.
Professional drivers know the tip has come into its own in recent years as a viable alternative.
We're lucky enough to have one of each...and for me each transmission has its pros and cons.
10-21-2006, 12:16 PM
#10
Nordschleife Master
Hmmmm.......wonder why the cup cars don't switch to TIP's? If they would be faster then it is a no brainer. Easiest place to pick up speed is the speed that is given to you. So, I ask again.......why isn't the cup car driven with a TIPPY? Thought so.
Auto....faster around the track with a novice behind the wheel.
Manual....faster around the track with a skilled driver (think about how much more you can manipulate with the manual gearbox).
Auto....faster around the track with a novice behind the wheel.
Manual....faster around the track with a skilled driver (think about how much more you can manipulate with the manual gearbox).
10-21-2006, 12:26 PM
#11
Originally Posted by boolala
... quoting HH in this month's Christophorus magazine:
"...99.99 percent of the driving public is better served with an automatic transmission--it's just easier..."
"...99.99 percent of the driving public is better served with an automatic transmission--it's just easier..."
10-21-2006, 12:36 PM
#12
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I agree that the tip may be more effective, but I think the real issue is engagement. Manual transmissions provide more engagement. Some day cars may be guided by GPS, have adaptive cruise control (already here), self-park (new Lexus), have lane departure warning systems, but some drivers will always want maximum engagement and control. That's why there's still a big market for classic cars which aren't as refined as newer cars. Manuals aren't better, just different. It's purely a matter of personal preference.
10-21-2006, 12:44 PM
#13
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[QUOTE=boolala]There is so much B.S. written on this forum about the tip that I thought I would provide some balance by quoting HH in this month's Christophorus magazine:
"...99.99 percent of the driving public is better served with an automatic transmission--it's just easier...as long, of course, as the automatic is up to the standard of the Porsche transmission....Porsche has developed the tiptronic over the years to become very smart....Anyone other than a professional race driver willl be able to get around the track faster with the automatic than with the manual shifter....Six speed gear shifting requires you to be very proficient.....and most people don't have a clue..."
HH is slightly OTT but to to put it into prospective...How many Porsches have been sold in America since the inception of the brand? Not even 1% of the overall number of vehicles on the road in America today.Thus, the statement "most people" can be taken many different ways.
I think Walter Rohrl once said something to the effect, the six speed makes you a better driver and puts you in touch with the machine, the tip helps you feel like a better driver and get away with more. He did also say that "most" people will get around a track a bit better because they can concentrate on the line rather than changing gears.
Ultimately, we all want to be better drivers and have that involvement with the car, I personally can get around a track in around the same speed with a tip or manual but boy its a lot more fun with the manual than a tip and let's face it boys and girls - we all like our cars because they are fun! If that means tip then great and if it means stick thats cool as well.
Just remember, girls drive tips though
Just kidding
"...99.99 percent of the driving public is better served with an automatic transmission--it's just easier...as long, of course, as the automatic is up to the standard of the Porsche transmission....Porsche has developed the tiptronic over the years to become very smart....Anyone other than a professional race driver willl be able to get around the track faster with the automatic than with the manual shifter....Six speed gear shifting requires you to be very proficient.....and most people don't have a clue..."
HH is slightly OTT but to to put it into prospective...How many Porsches have been sold in America since the inception of the brand? Not even 1% of the overall number of vehicles on the road in America today.Thus, the statement "most people" can be taken many different ways.
I think Walter Rohrl once said something to the effect, the six speed makes you a better driver and puts you in touch with the machine, the tip helps you feel like a better driver and get away with more. He did also say that "most" people will get around a track a bit better because they can concentrate on the line rather than changing gears.
Ultimately, we all want to be better drivers and have that involvement with the car, I personally can get around a track in around the same speed with a tip or manual but boy its a lot more fun with the manual than a tip and let's face it boys and girls - we all like our cars because they are fun! If that means tip then great and if it means stick thats cool as well.
Just remember, girls drive tips though
Just kidding
10-21-2006, 12:46 PM
#14
Perhaps I need educating here.
The Tip is a slushbox, not an automatic manual (as in F1 Ferrari, SMG BMW etc.) so therefore it has to be less efficient and slower than a manual box surely?
Professional racers use automatic manuals but I don't think they use slushboxes do they?
Slushboxes are for convenience and for those who can't drive stick. They have their place. Porsche charge a premium 'cos they can, there are a lot of folks who really want a Porsche but don't know how to change gears.
The Tip is a slushbox, not an automatic manual (as in F1 Ferrari, SMG BMW etc.) so therefore it has to be less efficient and slower than a manual box surely?
Professional racers use automatic manuals but I don't think they use slushboxes do they?
Slushboxes are for convenience and for those who can't drive stick. They have their place. Porsche charge a premium 'cos they can, there are a lot of folks who really want a Porsche but don't know how to change gears.
10-21-2006, 12:50 PM
#15
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Oh also, a friend who works for Porsche did once tell me that the tip was mostly designed for the USA market where automatics are very popular. In Europe, I never sat in an automatic car until I was 18 (35 now) and never drove one until I was about 22. I was so excited when I got my first automatic at 28 - huge novelty factor!
I would be interested to see what the percentage of automatics against manuals are sold in the US and EU and then finally in Asia. I know that Japan is 85% automatic for Porsche and even higher for other brands!!!
I would be interested to see what the percentage of automatics against manuals are sold in the US and EU and then finally in Asia. I know that Japan is 85% automatic for Porsche and even higher for other brands!!!