Not saying GM isn't losing lots of money. Porsche has always been a rather small company compared to GM and provided a very limited model range compared to GM's plethora of cars, trucks, commercial vehicles and all it's other services etc. I'm certainly not saying it's bad to make money, but when a company is constantly rated year after year as making the greatest amount of money off it's customers on every vehicle sold compared to all the other manufactures it makes one wonder if we're all getting overcharged for what we are getting. The post pertaining to the cost of options illustrates a great point. With respect to the 993's and the build quality, that has been discussed here at nauseum; I've owned the water cooled cars and air cooled, as stated many times, I prefer the build quality of the air cooled cars and the comfort and mechanicals of the water cooled one's. I have owned 2 Ferrari's and found them both to be quite reliable; but the non-warranty scheduled service costs were simply astounding, not to mention my insurance.

 

I gotta chime in here and call this one like I see it.

This ridiculous little spat between you and 500 stems, in my opinion, from the reply posted above, which, while possibly in jest, could easily be taken as being extremely condescending and, dare I say it, rude.

Telling a newbie that their post is a waste of time and suggesting that they have so little to offer that they can only learn from the superior knowledge of folks like you OCBen - see how this can be perceived - is over the line IMO.

I'd like to give the world a Coke . . .

-B

 

Have to agree on this one! Even though I have learned to somewhat understand Ben's humor...I think this was uncalled for.

 

Thank you gentlemen, your insights and comments are most appreciated. I never looked to pick a fight with anyone, just post some recent, albeit consistent news about our beloved Porsche.

 

I've also owned two, one somewhat reliable, the other not. But neither could be driven daily.

As far as Porsche's profit though, buy what you like and be happy. If you feel Porsche is not a good value in your equation (whatever factors and constants you wish to apply) buy something else.

For me, getting ripped off is paying $100K and getting a car that does not work for me. My 997 is certainly not that!

This idea that someone is making too much profit is a real Strawman in our society. The definition of too much profit these days is "more than I think you should".The definition of rich is "someone who makes $1 more than me".

Take one of the favorite whipping posts in our current crosshairs, Pharma companies. Every politician, news nobody, what have you states as "fact" that we are being hosed by Pharma Cos. What a load of baloney!

The Free Market in truth virtually guarrantees that no one can really get away with it for too long.

Really, just buy a Ford or whatever and sleep well is my advice for those who fear being cheated.

 

The discussion so far (besides perhaps deteriorating) ignores discussion on the illusive goal of long-term profitability in the automobile business. Porsche, since it's founding as an automobile consulting organization, has gone thru many periodic financial swings that questioned it's continued viability as a firm.

Ferry Porsche early-on established some business principles to ensure "continuity of the firm" including avoiding any long-term debt, paying for capital new developmental projects from cash reserves, and overlapping product lines to ensure revenue during the new product introduction period (an example being the last year of the 356C and the then-new 911).

Financial crisis periods seem to follow a roughly 10-15 year cycle and the euphoria over the current business results should never blind a company to the potential dark clouds ahead.

In relatively recent times, the early 1970's Porsche internal family conflicts and withdrawal from active management of the company had many automotive pundits predicting the dissolution of the firm. The enthusiasm over the extremely high volumes (for a previously small "specialty" manufacturer) of the 914 and the attempt to achieve continuous financial growth with the 924/944 resulted in diluting the focus of the original business vision (the evolution of the aircooled heritage 356/911 as a unique Sports Car). A major crisis point was reached in the 1980's with internal infighting on the potential elimination of the 911 in favor of the 928. By 1989, the major automotive journals were pointing to Porsche's declining cash position and as a likely takeover target with Mercedes-Benz or VW-Audi as the likely heirs. Porsche stoutly denied takeover reports but the increased costs (in part by the unfavorable exchange rate), declining sales and acceptance of the 964, plus increasing labor-management difficulties, particularly with the Metal Worker's Union, fueled the "end of Porsche" speculation.

The introduction of the 993 "staunched" the cash flow depletion temporarily, until the then-new Boxster came on line. If you look at the labor agreements, volumes, and likely cost to produce, the 996 line was arguably at best a marginal product line financial contributor. Like it or not, the Cayenne "Cavalry" arrived just in time to offset declining sales of the Boxster and has likely been the principle contributor to the successful bottom line (although again the "dark clouds of the future" are reflected in reduced US Sales although worldwide results seemed fairly healthy).

(As an aside, I sometimes wonder if that diminutive, soft-spoken man called Ferry Porsche would have wanted the firm to continue if he saw a beefed up Turbo Cayenne with 21 inch "Chromes" and full "Orange County Chopper" regalia "posturing" for an audience.)

Can the 997 and the "stopgap" Cayman bridge the gap while Porsche decides if the
"Continuity of the Firm" is in the form of a 4-door coupe or a Crossover vehicle?

It is clear (at least to me so disagree away!) that the 911 that so many of us have loved for all these years must be "subsidized" by product lines that diminish to some degree the reason that we own a Porsche. The recent JD Power quality rating, at the absolute bottom of a rather undistinguished heap, again points out that we often throw logic to the wind in favor of what has always been a unique automobile.

PCS (46 years of Porsche Ownership)

 

Yeah, you guys are right. That was clearly over the line, I agree. That definitely came across as a bit harsh and quite rude to the newbie. My humble apologies to everyone who was offended by my poor attempts at humor, including you, Mr/Ms 500.

"Bailiff, whack his peepee!"

Thanks for the Coke, Bullet. I'll take mine with an extra shot of rum.

 

I feel like I said this before...but I know you are a stand up guy!!!

 

god, i am reading this and ben ...you are a jerk....you got some serious problems....wow..i have been around here for a short time and you take the cake..you are the kind of *** i would see on the other forums i will not name...lighten up..life is too short..

 

Reminds me of a favorite quote: "I like my scotch the way I like my women: 20 years old and mixed up in Coke."

-B

 

as a share holder I am thrilled people are willing to pay too much for their cars and the options. Please keep it up. By the way the quality of my 996GT3 is pretty good. Also, I would match the abilities against any prior street P car

 

perrys7342,

Thanks for a stimulating post.

While I agree that the Boxster and Cayenne have saved Porshe, I wouldn't underestimate the contributions of the 996. It was the best selling 911 of all time. I don't understand why labor agreements would affect the profitability of the 996 more than any other model (apart from the 987's that were not made in Germany), and volumes were, I would say, good. Given the shared components with the 987, the streamlining in efficiency, and the extra mark up of the 996 (compared to the 987), I would imagine that it made good money for Porsche. I don't know that for sure though, but I'd be interested to hear more if you do.

-B

 

Now 'yer talking

Don't get angry, buy stock. See how fast your attitude changes.

Seriously, after owning five 911's I really looked for an alternative.

I tried Aston-Martin, Ferrari, Corvette, BMW and Mercedes. It just doesn't exist if you want "something like what a 911 offers" you better be ready to sprechen Deutsche.

Besides, how many cars make you smile like this?

 

You must be a very good Psychiatrist and/or Psychic

And for sure your a Liberal (hope not, but...)

So you go out on the limb to insult someone because they were an "***" or a "jerk" to someone else?

That's soooooooooo sensitive of you. Say what you want, as long as I agree.

Go figure???

 

Actually our buddy here, riad, had that as his signature line. Works for me too....especially bottoms up position!