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IMO Why The 997 Is A Great Model---->Model Comparison Over The Years
All,
Having just sold my 2006 997 C4 I have some time on my hands and thinking about why the 997 is such a great model. I really am going to miss my 997 it was a great example for 107K miles and set up well. So much hype about the 997.1 Bore Scoring which is a real issue however IMO buyer can protect themselves buying a higher mileage Bored Scoped example.
When you compare the issues in previous Porsche models, the 997 Bore Scoring problem seems less intimidating if buyer does their due diligence when purchasing.
This is a long thread but hopefully an interesting and informative read.
Sharing my insights/opinions on the Porsche Models I've owned over the past 38 years and issues related to that particualr model as a comparison to the 997.1.
Porsche 356A 1952-1959:
I've forgotten how many 356's I've owned in late 1980's-1990's. My Jade Green 1953 Bent windshield Sunroof, 59 Super coupe, 59 Super Sunroof & 1965 356C in photos above.
My favorite was the 59 Super coupe that I sold prior to restoring my 1959 Super Sunroof. The 59 Super was a great example in that it has all original metal, numbers matching including it's Super engine and all body parts original and everything a "tight fit"
My Super sunroof had lots of body repairs but looked good. Happy to report I'm buying back my 59 Super coupe and will have it in my posession June 20th Model issues: No so great creature comforts, heater and defroster terrible. However comfortable suspension which takes bad road surfaces very well.
-Engine temps: These cars have small oil cooler located inside the engnes fan schroud. Not the best design and why you used to see early VW's with external oil coolers. They made a repro aluminum oil cooler which was larger but didn't totally solve the heating issue.
I remember taking several road trips from Sea---> Los Angeles and during the day driving in the shadow of tractor trailers to keep the engine temp down a bit. Due to the hot running temps and low HP, most of these engines only lasted 80-90K miles before needing rebuild.
-Rust Rust Rust---->The only 356's that survived rust were those in warmer climates - Huge rust problem with these cars that rotted out the floors/door bottoms/battery box area as well as around windshield.
Porsche 911 Short Hood pre-1968:
Had a bunch of these during the 1980's early 1990's. My red 1965 911 in photo above was a fun car to drive - Increased HP made these nimble in the turns but again lacked creature comforts.
These cars also suffered rust issues and most of these engines just couldn't get beyond 100K miles.
Porsche 911S - 1975-1977:
My 1977S pictured above was one of my favorite 911's.
These cars suffered hot running engines and an aftermarket 11 blade fan was available to help cooling. They also suffered transmission synco failures requiring rebuild.
Most of these cars has top end rebuilds needed before they hit 50K miles. Mine had rebuilt top end, rebuilt tranny and I had high end repaint.
The HP to weight ratio on these cars IMO was outstanding and they felt like little bullets.
Porsche 911SC 1979-1983:
My Silver 1981 and Dark Grey 1982 pictured above. I had so many of these SC's I forget count. Fun cars and lots were always on the market to buy. The dark Grey car belonged to Pelican Parts owner Wayne Dempsey - He used it for his "101 Porsche Projects" book for the engine rebuild. I got his autograph in my copy of his book.
Problems I encountered with these 911SC cars were bad 915 transmission syncros, bad chain tensioners lead to engines detonating and these engines had consistant oil leaks.
Not sure if it was just me but I also had fuel distributors that gave me issues and real PITA because they needed to be replaced and expensive at the time I believe $1000.
I'd have to guess every 911SC has required the chain tensioner upgrade and transmission rebuild.
Porsche 964 1989-1993:
My 1991 964 pictured above. Initially this new design wasn't met with open arms and therefore very affordable at the time. Now they are extremely desireable and expensive.
These cars had better creatire comforts with better heating and defroster. Transmission upgraded to the G50 which was robust and no issues.
Problems with these cars were the nototious huge oil leaks and dual mass flywheeel failures. I used a diesel engine oil diaper pad wedged between the engine and engine tray. didn;t keep the car long enough to do the engine rebuilt but saw plenty of them at my Porsche Indy shop 5 blacks from my house
**These cars also suffered from rust issues at the base of the front windshield cowl/fender and base of rear windshields. Very bad expensive problem to repair. Happened on most all cars. I had this repair done to my front cowl at base of front windshield.$$
Engines on these cars needed rebuilding around 50-60K miles due to the oil leaks and oil leaks had to do (I believe)with no engine seals being used from factory engine design.
*The later 1992-1993 models had the engine seal installed and didn;t have the oil leak issues.
Porsche 993 1995-1998:
My Polar Silver 1995 in photo above. I had 3 of these 993's - 2 narrow body 1995's and a 1996 widebody C4.
The new design was such a beauty. Last of the Aircooled cars these 993's were a fun model but had it's issues.
The big problem was the engine head air passages getting clogged with carbon. This was a bigger issue with the 1996-1998 models because they switched over to the OB11 Emissions testing which was the plug into car's computer method.
1996-1998 cars with clogged air passages wouldn't pass emissions testing and had to have the heads rebuilt. $$$ All of them had idle issues nce the heads got clogged which happened if I remember correclty in the 40K-50K mileage range.
1999-2004 996 & 996 C4S:
Pictured 2 of the many 996's I've owned - Silver 2002 C4S and Seal Grey 2003 C4S.
These first water cooled cars were really nice. I owened a total of 5 C4S's and a couple of narrow bodied.
I really got into these and enjoyed owning them. Never liked the headlight design.
These cars suffered from the famous IMS issue. Lots of detonated engines.---->Short novel sized threads can be found on 996 Forums. It was a must to get the upgraded IMS Bearing from LN Engineering.
Not a cheap fix at about $3000 at the time but a must for peace of mind. They also suffered from cracked rear tailinght lenses. Almost all have this issue and when I took my tailight apart I noticed they cracked right where the mounting studs are located. Seemed odd because the mounting studs are on back of lens but it is what it is.
I also had ignition switch, sunroof switch and window motor issues - Sunroof motor usually had to be replaced due to not closing properly.
Hope this thread sheds some light on my experience with the various models.
I owned a lot of 912's as well back in 1980's-1990's. They were fun cars but lacked the HP thrill. And those engines never made it past 70-80K due to heat.
Last edited by groovzilla; 06-05-2024 at 10:12 PM.
Wow. I love all the old personal photos and anecdotes. I have 30 years of ownership history with these cars, but I'm jealous of yours! So cool.
I once described a simple staircase to explain the differences between 911 generations to friend of mine (as below). The good news, I suppose, is that we have so many choices!
Nice post Groov. One of the underappreciated aspects of the 997 was its return to the 993 form. Not just the headlights, but the fender profiles, the flowing front bumper, and the rear end swoop. The dash is a dramatic return with the straight lines and simple form. It's almost like Porsche said, yeah we made a mistake, we know it, and went back to our roots. Functionally the 997.1 and the 996 aren't much different but they are world's apart styling-wise.
I like the 996 personally, they look good and had they been any other car I'd be a big fan. But coming after the beautiful 993, seeming to lose the 911's storied DNA, and looking too much like the cheaper Boxster sealed their fate. The 997 will always be known as the model that brought the 911 back from a mistaken aberration.
Nice post Groov. One of the underappreciated aspects of the 997 was its return to the 993 form. Not just the headlights, but the fender profiles, the flowing front bumper, and the rear end swoop. The dash is a dramatic return with the straight lines and simple form. It's almost like Porsche said, yeah we made a mistake, we know it, and went back to our roots. Functionally the 997.1 and the 996 aren't much different but they are world's apart styling-wise.
I like the 996 personally, they look good and had they been any other car I'd be a big fan. But coming after the beautiful 993, seeming to lose the 911's storied DNA, and looking too much like the cheaper Boxster sealed their fate. The 997 will always be known as the model that brought the 911 back from a mistaken aberration.
Groov at one time you were hot for a 991. Where do you stand on them these days?
I drove 2 991's about 4 years ago and I loved the new design - Both of them were at Grand Prix Motors in Portland and both hasd the fugy black glass optional sunroof.
Was very hot on buying one and probably would have but I couldn't find a Silver/Black example that had:
1. Manual Transmission
2. The Metal body-colored sunroof (Most have the optional black glass sunroof which I dislike very much and feel it breaks up/takes away from the nice sleek design)
3. Reasonable asking price (At the time the asking prices were nuts but there were lots of Manual Transmission cars around - Now not so much.
I found a Carerra T back then that would have worked but was too pricey and seller wouldn't budge.
Then I got hooked on my 06 997 C4 and forgot all about the 991.
I might buy a 991 someday but I can't see selling my soon to be 1959 356 Super Coupe. WIth my drums/Elliptical Machine and other crap in 2-car garage I only really have one hole in my garage for a sportscar.
I have garage space at our beach house but wife has her water toys stuffed in it and slim room for our car.
.....So I might not ever get a 991. Have to see how things play out
Last edited by groovzilla; 06-05-2024 at 10:58 PM.
Great to hear from someone on the furthest OTHER end of the ownership spectrum from me (I, having only two months ago been given a 997.2).
Your post, to my mind, missing only one substantive bit that leaves the reader wondering:
Lots of folks have thought about having a 911, and then maybe even bought a few over the years. But you have what seems a particularly deep fondness/sickness for them that hasn’t wavered in ~four decades.
Could you say a little more about how you first turned to 911s, then what made them for you so sticky through the years?
Separately, it seems that for the most part you’ve owned mostly contemporary models (if a decade or two off), but are now swapping a 997.1 for a 356 (that you owned decades ago). This seems to shift you squarely into the ‘classic car’ bucket, which can be a much different ownership experience than a more daily driver sort of ownership (not that many of us dd our 997s, but *could* with relatively little adjustment).
Thoughts on how this shift may change your relationship with ‘the one’ in your garage?
Thanks for this fun read.
Great to hear from someone on the furthest OTHER end of the ownership spectrum from me (I, having only two months ago been given a 997.2).
Your post, to my mind, missing only one substantive bit that leaves the reader wondering:
Lots of folks have thought about having a 911, and then maybe even bought a few over the years. But you have what seems a particularly deep fondness/sickness for them that hasn’t wavered in ~four decades. Could you say a little more about how you first turned to 911s, then what made them for you so sticky through the years?
Separately, it seems that for the most part you’ve owned mostly contemporary models (if a decade or two off), but are now swapping a 997.1 for a 356 (that you owned decades ago). This seems to shift you squarely into the ‘classic car’ bucket, which can be a much different ownership experience than a more daily driver sort of ownership (not that many of us dd our 997s, but *could* with relatively little adjustment).
Thoughts on how this shift may change your relationship with ‘the one’ in your garage?
The desire to get my 1st Porsche was something I always wanted as a kid - My dad used to take me to car dealerships and the Porsche dealership in NYC was our favorite. Growing up I was involved in sports and we would shop at sporting goods store every year down in Manhattan close to the Porsche dealership. The desire to have one festered from that.
I always liked keeping them for a year or 2 and then buying another one. Back then there were lots on the market and easy to sell/buy a newer model or model with different options. This was true up until just 6 years ago when the Porsche market went thru the roof and all models esculated in value and owners held onto them. Like my mention above, try finding a Silver/Black 991 w/manual transmission without the ugly glass sunroof - Next to impossible and you do they cost a small fortune (Carrera T as an example)
My decision to buy my 1959 356 back was like a dream come true. I have always thought about the car and have let my friend know(buyer from me & current owner) every few years not to forget my 1st right of refusal. I never imagined he would sell it and getting that phone call 3 weeks ago was amazing.
Haven;t slept well since
Also making the transition to the 356 from my 997 C4 is an easy one. I hardly drove my 997 in the 2.5 years I've owned it. Only 1400 miles since 11/2021. I've had some physical setbacks like my knee surgery and foot surgery. I also have bad right hip from fractured ribs fall 3 months ago.
But to be honest I really enjoy my Mercedes Diesel SUV - So easy to get in and out of and I just love it and it is my daily driver. *Getting in and out of the 997 is not easy for me due to my knee and hip. It takes some serious gymnastics to get into the car.
The 356 is very easy to get in and out of - It sits a little higher and has fat smooth seats easy to slide in and over on. No Bolsters to contend with.
The 356 won't be used much and I'll have plenty of fun just staring at it in my garage.
The main concern w/the 356 is theft.---->I really can't leave it out of my sight which sucks but secured parking is how it will be.
My garage is also getting better locking system and motion security camera. Its a victorian era garage and small for 2 cars - Now I have my drums and elliptical machine in it so only room for 1 car.
Photo of my 59 356 in garage back in 1995 with my 1979 Ferrari 308 GTSI
Last edited by groovzilla; 06-06-2024 at 12:39 PM.
06-05-2024, 04:39 PM
IMO Why The 997 Is A Great Model---->Model Comparison Over The Years
