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While I haven't seriously looked for a few months, I can't believe manual 997.2 base cars can be had for anything below mid-40s. Has the market softened that much? Even mid-$40k, I would imagine the car would be a high mileage car with a ding or two in its history.
One data point. I sold my 92k mile base 6MT 997.2 black on black with factory LSD and sport chrono for $50k one year ago. I realize the market has softened some since then, but please point me to any and all 997.2 manuals for $3x,000 and I'll buy one right now.
When I go from my 997.2 GT3 to my 997.1 base Carrera, it just never feels slow around town. It revs and is so satisfying to drive. I love how it easily matches your mood. I do remember around 2001 when I did feel the difference between the 325 vs 330 BMW e46's were significant enough. Any 2008 Carrera is quick enough for me to get my sports car groove on. The 0-60 for a base 992 is 3.2s. Love those 992 base vs S vs GTS discussions.
I have owned both the 997.2 base and S. I agree with the consensus about the power/acceleration is not noticeable in the real world. I had the base first and thought PASM wasn’t a big deal. After a while, I did not like the factory suspension. I ended up changing the springs to Eibach, didn’t make a difference. I sold it and bought an S and have been very happy with the ride quality.
You can find base .2 with PASM but it takes some patience. I see 3 or 4 a year pop up and they don’t sell any quicker because of it.
.Specifically left out are the GT cars (GT3, GT2), Turbos, and also I view the GTS as not a regular Carrera as well - all those cars sell for much higher $s than 997.1s or .2s whether base or S. PDKs got lumped in because they're plentiful on the used market, unlike 6-speeds, not because they're inferior or anything like that - simply an availability issue.
Which is why as I've said before I always looked at the plentiful PDK cars on the market vs. manuals as a supply and demand issue....but from a different angle. The PDK was introduced 2009 and based on all statistics I've seen has since been ordered from the factory at an 80% to 90% preference over manuals. Consistently over all these years. So are the few manuals out there commanding a premium to the PDK because they're more sought after by a majority of buyers or are they commanding a premium because so few have been built over the past 14 years due to lack of demand by a majority of buyers that the few who still must have a manual end up in price wars over the few that come up for sale?
Porsche builds what buyers want. That's what has made the brand one of the most profitable auto makers on earth last I heard. Would they build 80-90% PDK cars over 14 years if the market was screaming for more manuals? I don't think so. I think they have built cars since 2009 that dealerships around the world have been asking for and have customers for.
PDK… I went from a manual .2 GT3 to a .2 pdk 3.6… there is a performance difference here, I can tell you first hand, but is the 80hp gain worth 150k price difference? No.. I miss the GT3, but I’m still real happy with the 3.6, and yes real world performance 3.6 vs 3.8, not really that noticeable. The smaller displacement will always have less chance of scoring if taken care of.. I could have bought a 3.8, but with my plans with the 3.6 didn’t see the need. If I could go back to 6MT I probably would, but the pdk is nice and it’ll be much better once I get the 991 steering wheel/paddles… I hate the .2 paddles!!
Last edited by GT3twenty10; 11-29-2023 at 07:24 AM.
Another hater here of the 997.2 PDK Paddles on the Sport Design Wheel. Slow to react and the reach/throw was too long. I've ditched the wheel and gone with a Momo MOD 7 wheel and use the PDK Stick in Manual (modified to take a manual leather gaiter and 917-look gearknob). PDK is great in heavy traffic, faster than a Manual in Sports Plus. This way I get to enjoy 'emulating' the 6MT.
Now, how do I get the damn +/- manual shifter to reverse to match all other motorsports cars (GT3, later 991.2 onwards, BMWs, etc.). That would be perfect....
I never test drove a 6MT, but heard the clutches are heavy.
We see similar here in the UK. 6MTs are rarer and can command 5-10% price premium over PDKs. Long term, this may balance out.
Another hater here of the 997.2 PDK Paddles on the Sport Design Wheel. Slow to react and the reach/throw was too long. I've ditched the wheel and gone with a Momo MOD 7 wheel and use the PDK Stick in Manual (modified to take a manual leather gaiter and 917-look gearknob). PDK is great in heavy traffic, faster than a Manual in Sports Plus. This way I get to enjoy 'emulating' the 6MT.
Now, how do I get the damn +/- manual shifter to reverse to match all other motorsports cars (GT3, later 991.2 onwards, BMWs, etc.). That would be perfect....
I never test drove a 6MT, but heard the clutches are heavy.
We see similar here in the UK. 6MTs are rarer and can command 5-10% price premium over PDKs. Long term, this may balance out.
Which is why as I've said before I always looked at the plentiful PDK cars on the market vs. manuals as a supply and demand issue....but from a different angle. The PDK was introduced 2009 and based on all statistics I've seen has since been ordered from the factory at an 80% to 90% preference over manuals. Consistently over all these years. So are the few manuals out there commanding a premium to the PDK because they're more sought after by a majority of buyers or are they commanding a premium because so few have been built over the past 14 years due to lack of demand by a majority of buyers that the few who still must have a manual end up in price wars over the few that come up for sale?
Porsche builds what buyers want. That's what has made the brand one of the most profitable auto makers on earth last I heard. Would they build 80-90% PDK cars over 14 years if the market was screaming for more manuals? I don't think so. I think they have built cars since 2009 that dealerships around the world have been asking for and have customers for.
Yep, it's both and the fact that the used 997 buyer is not the same as the new 997 buyer, so that creates the greater demand than supply price premium.
Another hater here of the 997.2 PDK Paddles on the Sport Design Wheel. Slow to react and the reach/throw was too long. I've ditched the wheel and gone with a Momo MOD 7 wheel and use the PDK Stick in Manual (modified to take a manual leather gaiter and 917-look gearknob). PDK is great in heavy traffic, faster than a Manual in Sports Plus. This way I get to enjoy 'emulating' the 6MT.
Now, how do I get the damn +/- manual shifter to reverse to match all other motorsports cars (GT3, later 991.2 onwards, BMWs, etc.). That would be perfect....
I never test drove a 6MT, but heard the clutches are heavy.
We see similar here in the UK. 6MTs are rarer and can command 5-10% price premium over PDKs. Long term, this may balance out.
Nice job on the shifter conversion.
FWIW, I've driven and owned countless manual cars in my life and I never once noticed the 997.2 manual clutch being stiff even a little bit. Is that a talking point in the UK? The only negative I ever found with the 6MT is that first was sometimes tough to slot into on a cold day. It was otherwise a joy to use IMO.
I also think the 6MT in the 997.2 will always command a premium over its PDK counterpart. If anything, I think the delta may grow over time.
FWIW, I've driven and owned countless manual cars in my life and I never once noticed the 997.2 manual clutch being stiff even a little bit. Is that a talking point in the UK? The only negative I ever found with the 6MT is that first was sometimes tough to slot into on a cold day. It was otherwise a joy to use IMO.
I also think the 6MT in the 997.2 will always command a premium over its PDK counterpart. If anything, I think the delta may grow over time.
agree on both.. pdk was more of a mass production thing and since there were so little .2’s built compared to other era’s the 6MT will command a premium. I think the Porsche 6MT is the best tranny ever made
11-28-2023, 03:55 PM
